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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Angela's hell
     
         
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Missing since: 22 May 2007
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idk if this has been discussed much, but im looking for feedback on my theories. towards the end of SH2 James is able to see Angela's hell that she is only normally able to see. could it be possible that this is the same reason that Harry Mason is caught up in Alessa's hell, and that Henry is pulled into Walter Sullivan's hell? just wondering.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 17 Mar 2007
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Quit a good theory there boyo, never realy thought of it that way.

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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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I would have to dispute the description of their surroundings as "hell."

As one of the memos in SH2 tells us, the Otherside (because that's really all it is) is a reflection of the mental state of the one who enters/influences it. (one of the mental patients finds it to be a very pleasant place) You're not running around in the afterlife.

In the case of Henry and Harry, they each had very specific reasons to be called into the Otherside. Harry needed to bring Cheryl to Silent Hill to allow the summoning of God to be completed, and Henry needed to be Walter's 21st Sacrament.

I'm not sure what you're stating as the reason for James's interaction with Angela's surroundings, but it's not comparable to the other examples you mentioned.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Angela's hell
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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CursedxNightmare wrote:
idk if this has been discussed much, but im looking for feedback on my theories. towards the end of SH2 James is able to see Angela's hell that she is only normally able to see. could it be possible that this is the same reason that Harry Mason is caught up in Alessa's hell, and that Henry is pulled into Walter Sullivan's hell? just wondering.


In SH2, whenever the characters interact (save for Maria and James) I'd say that there's a few 'crossovers' going on, or a blending of worlds - the room you first meet Eddie not only has that corpse shoved in a fridge, but a room across from where he's vomiting is covered in football posters and random graffiti. Eddie's comment later in the game, in the meat locker, makes this room make a little more sense. Angela's second meeting with James is in a room with a giant mirror mounted on the otherside - the door to get in that room is pure white, and strangely right next to another room that is completely boarded up, as if the white door was recently made.

In the Labyrinth I think the connections and crossing-over parts become more distinct - particularly with Angela in the room, with all the newspapers plastered outside of it. Where she sees her father, James sees a monster (this is the only sense I can make of it, since I really, highly doubt she would look at the monster and call it 'daddy'; Angela just doesn't see things as they are...) Eddie, again, in the meat locker with the corpses and once more in the bigger part where there are giant hunks of dead somethings hanging - I'd imagine this is what Eddie sees his victims as, or as he views himself.

Angela and the 'flaming wall' staircase is, I guess, self-explanatory, or at least she takes the time to elaborate on it in the game. So... I don't think that James crossing over into what Eddie and Angela see are at all similar to Harry and Henry's experiences. If anything, Henry's experiences with the other victims might be capable of being connected, but only by the fact that these are two people drawn together in one world.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 May 2006
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That's really interesting, Ive never thought about how the white door and the hanging meat stuff might be actually what they project. Those few more examples of the individual world crossovers make it easier to understand what Angela sees as her monster.

I would think a huge mirror in what looks like a bedroom-void is used to reflect just that. one of her personal hells was her bedroom.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Ive never thought about how the white door
Oh yeah?

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Angela's hell
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Mar 2006
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Krist. wrote:
CursedxNightmare wrote:
In the Labyrinth I think the connections and crossing-over parts become more distinct - particularly with Angela in the room, with all the newspapers plastered outside of it. Where she sees her father, James sees a monster (this is the only sense I can make of it, since I really, highly doubt she would look at the monster and call it 'daddy'; Angela just doesn't see things as they are...) Eddie, again, in the meat locker with the corpses and once more in the bigger part where there are giant hunks of dead somethings hanging - I'd imagine this is what Eddie sees his victims as, or as he views himself.


so that would also explain why the monsters appear to some as just that, or as angels/beautiful creatures, just as silent hill would appear as paradise to some.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 May 2007
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i see how JuriDawn disputes the whole personal hell deal. when James stumbles upon Angela in the burning room, only he seems to notice that it's "hot as hell in here", while Angela doesn't seem to care much. she seems almost comfortable in it. maybe james, since he is an outsider, is the only one who sees this as a "hell".


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 21 Jan 2007
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Ahah, here's support for my "Angela's teddy bear" idea. I think that bear, like the white door, is a distinct overlap from Angela's otherworld, rather than mere detritus or a very random reference to Laura. Think how important all the other bears in the game are.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 May 2007
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I think that bear, like the white door, is a distinct overlap from Angela's otherworld

Quote:
I would think a huge mirror in what looks like a bedroom-void is used to reflect just that. one of her personal hells was her bedroom.


thx guys. i never noticed these things. i now can see that there probably are more overlaps from Angela's otherworld into James' otherworld. these parts make a lot more sense now. i will try to look for other possible crossovers. or if anybody has any other ideas, plz share.


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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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CursedxNightmare: I wouldn't say Angela is "comfortable" in her surroundings, just resigned to them. It would be fair to say that her view of the otherside is hellish, just not "hell". Mostly I was disputing that the otherside in general could be described as hell.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 21 Mar 2006
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Yes, I agree with JuriDawn. It's Angelas own personal hell, not hell itself. Just like James is also trapped in his own personal hell in Silent Hill. Each one differs accordingly due to the things they have experienced in their lifetime.

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James's situation isn't quite so straightforward. Depending on the ending you get, he may end up in a sort of hell, but it isn't decided from the start what will happen to him. If anything, he's going through a sort of purgatory. If he makes the right decisions, he can escape Silent Hill. Consider the events of the game his trial, not his punishment.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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starsail1929 wrote:
I would think a huge mirror in what looks like a bedroom-void is used to reflect just that. one of her personal hells was her bedroom.


and a lot of the time mirrors represent self exploration.

so maybe it was meant for james as well.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 May 2007
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so that would also explain why the monsters appear to some as just that, or as angels/beautiful creatures, just as silent hill would appear as paradise to some.

ok, i see. The otherworld is different for every person, so it could either be a terrible place, like for James, or it could be a pleasant place, like for the patient described in the memo in Brookhaven.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 May 2006
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St. Thomas wrote:
>Ive never thought about how the white door
Oh yeah?


thanks for linking that, I have never looked at that topic. I also cannot remember the intro scene with Angela - Im gonna check that out!

Maybe a reason for the slight overlap is that the state of reason for everyone in SH2 is pure emotion. The very basic human emotions: Eddie - rage and the want of acceptance, Laura - want of safety and a connection with someone, Angela - wrath and heartache, James - guilt and repressed sexuality.

Not that I think there has to be a definite reason for their personal Silent Hills to connect, they all have such strong feelings and were probably all very emotional people so that would be a reason for them to be able to sense a bit of each other's worlds. course no proof of them seeing what James does I guess.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 May 2007
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Not that I think there has to be a definite reason for their personal Silent Hills to connect, they all have such strong feelings and were probably all very emotional people so that would be a reason for them to be able to sense a bit of each other's worlds.

I see this as the best reason for James being able to sense Angela's and Eddie's otherworlds. I guess what im trying to say is: is Harry caught up in Alessa's otherworld, and is Henry caught up in Walter's otherworld? if they are, is it possible that if say Angela wnt through a lot more suffering, like Alessa and Walter, her otherworld would overlap all others? this may sound a bit farfetched, but im just speculating.


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Gravedigger
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Good question. But we don't really know if Angela's and Eddie's worlds overlap (with) anyone else's than James's world. Perhaps James is just an empathetic person and open to influences?

And by "overlapping", i assume we are talking about Angela's world covering the others with it's influence, not just having some parts in common with the others. But to be clear, which of the two definitions are we using? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/overlap)

JuriDawn wrote:
James's situation isn't quite so straightforward. Depending on the ending you get, he may end up in a sort of hell, but it isn't decided from the start what will happen to him. If anything, he's going through a sort of purgatory. If he makes the right decisions, he can escape Silent Hill. Consider the events of the game his trial, not his punishment.

I think that's quotable notable material right there. Hey this might be offtopic but who do you consider the judge, then?

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 21 Jan 2007
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In theory, James's actions determine his fate, so he is his own judge.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 May 2007
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what i meant by overlapping was a complete eclipse over all other worlds. but yeah maybe some people are succeptible to experiencing other people's worlds, that would explain why James sees both Eddie's and Angela's worlds, along with his otherworld. i was just trying to compare SH2 to the other games. maybe they are totally different. idk.

o and I think James is the judge for the reason that James must choose whether he can resist Maria's temptations and PHs death offerings. this decision determines the ending of the game.


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