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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Monsters Symbolism + No Dog?
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
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As we all know, most of monsters in Silent Hill are manifestations of some sort.

In the Book of Lost Memories, we the players can see what each monster symbolize. However, I still feel some of them are not thoroughly explained. Creeper is one I'd like to discuss. In the Book, the metaphor of Creeper said "Since it also appears in the preceding work, one can think that it is derived for the most part from the town's power". What does it really mean? Most monsters of Silent Hill 2 are direct manifestations of James/Mary or Angela (Abstract Daddy) while Creeper is the only creature that really reflects Alessa's manifestation (dislike of insect). Does the producer of Silent Hill is trying to suggest that James has some sort of connection to Alessa, or simply that Alessa has an influence on Silent Hill in general?

Another thing is that Silent Hill 2 is the only one in the franchise that doesn't feature a demonic dog as an enemy. Beside, there is a Dog ending. Any thoughts on this?

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 01 Mar 2006
Notes left: 71
Last seen at: ..in my dreams..
uhmm not really ^^º i just thought that the dog ending was funny :p heheh

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 21 Jun 2005
Notes left: 607
Last seen at: Bournemouth, England
One would think that Alessa has an influence on Silent Hill in general, since it was her mind that created it in the first place. The presence of the Creepers might be the producers way of saying "This is Alessas town, and don't you forget it". I could also be talking out of my arse :mrgreen:

Oh, and I think the fact that Eddie killed a dog is the reason there are no demon dogs. His statement would be a lot less shocking if there were actual dogs running around town. You'd just think "Oh you killed a monster, jolly good show" *thumbs up*

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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2005
Notes left: 1696
Last seen at: Калинингра́д, Россия
Just remember that in the Dog ending, during the "Bark!" track that when Eddie is shown, the dog growls...
I always felt like there was something to that, but it's probably just for humour purposes.
I mean, Eddie killed a dog, so it's natural that Mira (the dog) isn't going to like him.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
Notes left: 698
Last seen at: Everett, MA
Why does the creeper have to symbolize anything? Why can't it simply be an annoying little enemy meant to screw you up while you're trying to fight something else?

And is it a cricket in SH2? Cuz it sure looks and sounds like one...

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
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Because all monsters in Silent Hill tend to symbolize something, at least to the makers of the game.
I think it is some sort of cockcroach more than a cricket.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
Notes left: 698
Last seen at: Everett, MA
It's definitely a roach in the first SH...but it has some cricketness in the second. (it also seems a bit silverfish-like to me too in the first one)

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
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If you compare SH1 and SH2 creepers' drawing design, they are very similar, except that SH1's creeper has some sort of "tail"

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
Notes left: 698
Last seen at: Everett, MA
amphreded wrote:
If you compare SH1 and SH2 creepers' drawing design, they are very similar, except that SH1's creeper has some sort of "tail"
That's what leads me to believe that it's supposed to be a silverfish.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 24 Oct 2003
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Last seen at: Room 311, making a noise complaint
I don't know what's worse,a giant roach or a giant Silverfish.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
Notes left: 698
Last seen at: Everett, MA
Chris Sunderland wrote:
I don't know what's worse,a giant roach or a giant Silverfish.
I'd trust a roach to crawl on me more than a silverfish...after seeing countless shows of people being covered in them, they seem harmless to people...still gross, but I think silverfish are inclined to bite more.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
Notes left: 3898
Is it possible that because there is a dog ending in SH2, the makers decide not to use dog as an enemy?
Furthermore, SH1 the dog is Alessa's fear of dog, and we can safely assume that for SH3 as well. For SH4, perhaps its Little Walter's fear of dog when he's young. In SH2, however, there are no dogs because James doesn't fear dogs. That's the simplest reason I could think of.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2006
Notes left: 66
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
Speaking of monsters and there sybolism in the game. I was thinking about that as I went for the "In Water" ending and had each monster beat me down to low health. I have some idea's on some of the monsters and their apperance in conjuction to the story.

Lying Creature= Notice it has a membrane of skin incasing it's head and arms. Much like how Mary was held down while James suffocated her. It's "Breath" attack perhaps also a supporting link in this theory.

Mannequin= Visually it's two lower halves of a woman pressed togeather. A creature showing James' sexual frustration over the fact he could no longer have relations with his wife when she became ill. I also point to the scene where PH seems to be raping the mannequin's when you first incounter him which supports this theory on the mannequin if one belives the thoery that PH is a judgemental and self-punishing figure of James' tourtured mind.

Creeper= I actually thought this one was quite simple. Pestilence. What better representaion of illness then the cockroach and really bugs in general to be the symbol of death and disease.

Nurses= Being that the medical community is regarded as life savers and heallers of sickness and the widely benevolent portail of female nurses. These enemys and the act of them appearing hostale and forcing James to fight and kill them are perhaps the image of James smothering life (Mary's) rather then chooseing to take her to Silent Hill and sticking it out with Mary and making her last days as best as possable.

Mandarin= The Hardest of enemies to pin down because of it's rare appearances. Because of the fact it always appears below James' and the fact it's attack method is of an impaleing spike from below this monster may be the representaion of James' fear of damnation and torment in hell of his heneous crime commited against his wife.

Abstract Daddy= This monster by it's form and mode of attack is or certain a creature embodying smothering, rape, and abuse.

To use the Abstract Daddy as a segway, we assume it appears the same to Angela as it does to James and that by using my theory of the Abstract Daddy it thus has similar meaning to Angela as the newspaper found detailing Angela's dad as being "abusive". This may also point as an article to the reoccrance of similar monsters in other games.

In the book of 'Crimson Ceremony' which is described as being a book on an ancient god, we assume it is of Valtiel. The Passage in the book which reads:

| I shall bring down bitter vengeance upon thee and thou
| shalt suffer my eternal wrath. The beauty of the withering
| flower and the last struggles of the dying man, these are my
| blessings.

This hints that Valtiel is a god of Vegance uses the tortured imaging's of previous tourtured souls of Silent Hill as a means to punish those called there. This may alson subdue the talk of PH as if the abouve were true the the cults strong imagining and paintion of PH may have been a manifistaion of Valtiel to represent James' need for self punishment.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 20 Sep 2004
Notes left: 230
Last seen at: On the internet!
Good theory White Zombie, but I have an opinion on the Abstract Daddy (Angela's Father).

I believe it is a representation of Angela's mind, but if you look really close during the cutscene in the labyrinth at the creature - it is not a door (doorman), but it is two figures underneath fleshy "sheets," like on a bed. A larger figure on top of a smaller - missionary style.

I don't know if anyone noticed it, but my friend still seems to think it's a person nailed to a door.

And how it attacks you - by suffocating you - is representation of what James did to Mary. And that part comes from James. I'm sure Angela sees her real dad (or some sort of twisted version), not what James sees.

Edit: For example: Who would call the Abstract Daddy their "daddy?" I mean, look at it - I don't think that monstrosity looks like anyone's father. The way Angela calls "it" her "Daddy" hints towards her possibly seeing something completely different.


Last edited by Fungo on 03 Mar 2006, edited 1 time in total.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2006
Notes left: 66
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
dustfungo wrote:
Good theory White Zombie, but I have an opinion on the Abstract Daddy (Angela's Father).

I believe it is a representation of Angela's mind, but if you look really close during the cutscene in the labyrinth at the creature - it is not a door (doorman), but it is two figures underneath fleshy "sheets," like on a bed. A larger figure on top of a smaller - missionary style.
.


Two figure's! I didn't even see that! Good eye and thanks it's my first really long addtion to a discussion!

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Douglas: Where are you going?
Heather: I’m taking the subway home.
Douglas: What should I do?
Heather: Hell if I know.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
Notes left: 698
Last seen at: Everett, MA
White Zombie wrote:
dustfungo wrote:
Good theory White Zombie, but I have an opinion on the Abstract Daddy (Angela's Father).

I believe it is a representation of Angela's mind, but if you look really close during the cutscene in the labyrinth at the creature - it is not a door (doorman), but it is two figures underneath fleshy "sheets," like on a bed. A larger figure on top of a smaller - missionary style.
.


Two figure's! I didn't even see that! Good eye and thanks it's my first really long addtion to a discussion!
I noticed that right away...the snout looks kinda like a girl's head with a bobcut hairstyle and a headband to me.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 19 Aug 2005
Notes left: 751
Last seen at: Connecticut
dustfungo wrote:
Edit: For example: Who would call the Abstract Daddy their "daddy?" I mean, look at it - I don't think that monstrosity looks like anyone's father. The way Angela calls "it" her "Daddy" hints towards her possibly seeing something completely different.


Hmm, that's a good point.
I just figured that after seeing Angela's monster, the door man, James started seeing it as well because it relates.
Angela may call it 'daddy' because he's the man on top?

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
Notes left: 698
Last seen at: Everett, MA
Last I heard, Tommy pointed that out for us a long time ago. Plus, it is the most logical explanation.

Was that last bit a joke, Hjartu?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Mar 2004
Notes left: 3526
Last seen at: Waco, Texas
Well, if you look closely enough you can see that there appears to be two separate moving entities on top of a bed like structure.....so I would hope so. ^_^
amphreded wrote:
Most monsters of Silent Hill 2 are direct manifestations of James/Mary or Angela (Abstract Daddy)
Personally, I'd say you do actually see what Eddie sees. All of the Dead bodies that surround him all have disfigured or discolored faces, to me this just means he sees people ugly people who, "look the same once they're dead".

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Value your failures more than your successes. Successes only last until someone screws them up. Failures are forever. She left...and...I'm lost.


Last edited by Loveless_Dogg on 04 Mar 2006, edited 1 time in total.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 19 Aug 2005
Notes left: 751
Last seen at: Connecticut
NightFlutter wrote:
Last I heard, Tommy pointed that out for us a long time ago. Plus, it is the most logical explanation.

Was that last bit a joke, Hjartu?


...Partly. The wording did make me laugh, but I don't know how the hell else to put it.
She relates it to her dad because that's....

...I should just shut up.

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