Eileen in the Forest World

Post by **Kenji** » 27 May 2010

I guess that's what I'm talking about, really. Does anyone actually go anywhere when they step into the Otherworld? Is the difference between Henry and so many other SH characters, the reason why he can more or less enter and leave willingly, because he's sleeping instead of unconscious?

This question has always been difficult to answer because, until The Room, the view to the real world ends the moment the protagonist enters the Otherworld.

Post by **The Adversary** » 27 May 2010

It's clear, I thought, that while in Walter's kingdom one who's entered is "there" in spite of not really being there: Their body is in the real world, asleep, but their soul, whatever, is in the dream world. That's why whenever Henry returns from the dream world, he really just awakens in his bed.

This is the main difference between SH4:TR's Otherworld and the rest of series', thus the distinction Kenji made.

Post by **clips** » 27 May 2010

The Adversary wrote:It's clear, I thought, that while in Walter's kingdom one who's entered is "there" in spite of not really being there: Their body is in the real world, asleep, but their soul, whatever, is in the dream world. That's why whenever Henry returns from the dream world, he really just awakens in his bed.

This is the main difference between SH4:TR's Otherworld and the rest of series', thus the distinction Kenji made.

Yeah...i agree with this. The physical properties Of SH are not set in stone...i do believe your whole physical body can leave the real world and traverse the otherworld, but also somewhat be in two different places in how Eileen body was. I found it interesting that when harry tried to leave with Eileen through the hole in the hospital, it wasn't possible...when he came back for her, she simply stated that he disappeared.

I never understood why she couldn't follow him, but i guess it just to progress the game.

Post by **Violent Corpse** » 27 May 2010

Is the whole game a dream? When Henry breaks out of his room in the supposed "real world", he finds Eileen out there. Where does she come from all of a sudden from her Hospital bed? And I remember him saying when he breaks out of his room, something like "Here too"? He seemed startled that the hellish world is now present in the "real" world too.

Post by **simeonalo** » 27 May 2010

Mephisto wrote:Remember that Henry couldn't understand the language because it was all fucked up? (He never said "fucked up" but it was something like this) maybe Walter had a horrible handwriting and the only one that could understand it at the said time was Eileen. Have you ever wondered how those teachers can read trough those horrible writings? Maybe Eileen has this kind of. . . gift. . .

Walter really did like and thank Eileen (her being kind and giving her the doll) evidence in the Crimson Tome on the Translated Memories website.

So maybe Walter gave her the "gift" or "ability" to read his handwriting out of kindness. But, I don't think this would make sense, considering Henry is the Receiver of Wisdom and all.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 27 May 2010

It's clear, I thought, that while in Walter's kingdom one who's entered is "there" in spite of not really being there: Their body is in the real world, asleep, but their soul, whatever, is in the dream world. That's why whenever Henry returns from the dream world, he really just awakens in his bed.

This is the main difference between SH4:TR's Otherworld and the rest of series', thus the distinction Kenji made.

Exactly, though I'd posit that Henry returning to his apartment is actually a false awakening; his apartment has become just as dreamlike, and only becomes moreso. (I'm also partially suspecting that he physically vanished atleast into the alternate Room 302, because otherwise he's suffering some serious starvation and dehydration).

I never understood why she couldn't follow him, but i guess it just to progress the game.

Because Eileen is in a coma, and she's not physically present in the Room like Henry is. How can she "wake up" in the apartment with him? She can't.

Is the whole game a dream? When Henry breaks out of his room in the supposed "real world", he finds Eileen out there. Where does she come from all of a sudden from her Hospital bed? And I remember him saying when he breaks out of his room, something like "Here too"? He seemed startled that the hellish world is now present in the "real" world too.

Henry escaping the room isn't the same as him escaping the dream. He escapes out, only to find that he and Eileen are still trapped. The two of them won't wake up in the real world until they defeat Walter.

Post by **The Adversary** » 27 May 2010

>So maybe Walter gave her the "gift" or "ability" to read his handwriting out of kindness.<
You really should read the whole thread. . . .

Post by **Yuki** » 27 May 2010

It's clear, I thought, that while in Walter's kingdom one who's entered is "there" in spite of not really being there: Their body is in the real world, asleep, but their soul, whatever, is in the dream world. That's why whenever Henry returns from the dream world, he really just awakens in his bed.

Oh, that makes a question come to mind. I can't recall from the endings I've watched; when Eileen dies, does she die in the hospital, physically? I chaulk it up to another case of Silent Hill fucking with victim locations, but I just find it interesting that it moved Cynthia but not Eileen.

Henry escaping the room isn't the same as him escaping the dream. He escapes out, only to find that he and Eileen are still trapped. The two of them won't wake up in the real world until they defeat Walter.

I'm guessing I find this out relatively soon? I'm in the Building World, second time.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 27 May 2010

Oh, that makes a question come to mind. I can't recall from the endings I've watched; when Eileen dies, does she die in the hospital, physically? I chaulk it up to another case of Silent Hill fucking with victim locations, but I just find it interesting that it moved Cynthia but not Eileen.

Eileen is, to some degree, already disconnected from her body after the initial attack. Her wounds during the escort mission segments certainly don't match her real body, and she possesses a quasi-immortality.

I'm guessing I find this out relatively soon? I'm in the Building World, second time.

Mmhm.

Post by **Mephisto** » 28 May 2010

Walter really did like and thank Eileen (her being kind and giving her the doll) evidence in the Crimson Tome on the Translated Memories website.

If Walter really liked Eileen then he would never try to hurt and/or kill her. When Eileen gave him the doll he was a grown up man so don't say anything about the Litlle Walter thing.

Walter was selfish, and only wanted his happiness. The only "nice" person that he met was indeed Eileen but her alone wouldn't stop his "conquest". One may say it was because of the whole Valtiel "descend" but Walter had free will after he got away from the orphanage (every men has free will, let's not talk about philosophy. What I meant to say is that he couldn't do a fuckin' thing while he was in the orhanage).

If he wanted, he would stop the killing. I know that his reasons were one to sympathize (feel free to correct me if the word is wrong, someone) with and many of the persons that he killed were linked to the whole scriptures (their faults and virtues) but he had plenty of people to choose. Some of the guys that he killed had it coming (and he kinda did a good deed for the society) like Toby Archbolt. But others, like Eric Walsh, Sharon Blake, Steve Garland and William Gregory didn't really had to die.
I still think that Steve Garland's death was only an excuse. The ritual didn't mattered, he only wanted vengeance because he almost "smashed" Walter because of the cat accident. But that's not the case of the subject.

So yeah, like I said before: If Walter really liked Eileen then he would never try to hurt and/or kill her.

Post by **Kenji** » 28 May 2010

I totally get your frustration, Mephisto.

Walter's like Sephiroth: Because some segment of the fanbase thinks he's hot, they'll go to any lengths to justify every horrible thing he does. Because he's hot.

Oh, and God help anyone who suggests that he isn't a victim of circumstance and, instead, perpetrated these acts of his own free will...

Post by **carneeval** » 28 May 2010

((I have no clue is this thread would count for spoilers so I did not Spoiler Mark anything))
I do not know if this has been mentioned yet- and of course I'm probably wrong as I'm not very good at this- doesn't her ability to read Little Walter's writing have to do with her being the Mother Reborn. As she is 'Mother' she can read the writing of the child. They do not state it but we don't know if she can read the note that notifies him to look for the pieces of the doll as he is 'Receiver of Wisdom', she probably can't, and if he were to show her any of the Red Notes they would probably be a blur (Metaphorically) to her as Little Walter's notes are to Henry.

(You can also make a comparison to Pyramid Head over Walter as people seem to want to marry him because he is 'Hot' although he wears Geometry for a head and rapes and kills for a living.)

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 28 May 2010

So yeah, like I said before: If Walter really liked Eileen then he would never try to hurt and/or kill her.

I'd wager the opposite. It's because he liked her that she was chosen; the Mother Reborn's death represents the cutting of the Conjurer's ties with the real world, right?

Oh, and God help anyone who suggests that he isn't a victim of circumstance and, instead, perpetrated these acts of his own free will...

While Walter is a total scumbag and all, let's be fair. He IS partially a victim of circumstance. He was pushed to his breaking point and...well, Dahlia had a cameo in his childhood.

Post by **carneeval** » 28 May 2010

AuraTwilight wrote:
So yeah, like I said before: If Walter really liked Eileen then he would never try to hurt and/or kill her.
I'd wager the opposite. It's because he liked her that she was chosen; the Mother Reborn's death represents the cutting of the Conjurer's ties with the real world, right?

Oh, and God help anyone who suggests that he isn't a victim of circumstance and, instead, perpetrated these acts of his own free will...
While Walter is a total scumbag and all, let's be fair. He IS partially a victim of circumstance. He was pushed to his breaking point and...well, Dahlia had a cameo in his childhood.

I have to agree with AuraTwilight, each person whom is brought into his dimension is to remain there for the rest of eternity as a wandering spirit, but since it's his dimension he can do whatever he wishes about their immortal souls, so there is no need to keep any of them as a mindless spirit if he wants.

Yes, he was pushed but he did go to Medical school so he did know of the actual births of a child, but continued to believe that he was the son of God. Nice. He was selfish, refused to open the eyes to the truth of the matter no matter the opportunities he had to do so. He wanted revenge on the world that had turned its back on him.
But we come back to Eileen, someone who demonstrated that humans aren't all evil, and he knew this.
He just didn't want to face anything real in the world because, like many people are after years of various abuses he could have brought his act together, but then there is the issue of the Vatiel...
I guess in the end my point was broken by that fact...

Post by **Mephisto** » 29 May 2010

but then there is the issue of the Vatiel...

Valtiel isn't nec. evil. Call him neutral. What I said before was an example of what some people think.

Post by **carneeval** » 29 May 2010

Mephisto wrote:
but then there is the issue of the Vatiel...
Valtiel isn't nec. evil. Call him neutral. What I said before was an example of what some people think.

(I hadn't read anything about the Vatiel from you on this particular forum)
I do not necessarily think of him as 'Evil' (Even after seeing him hanging that nurse is SH3...) but he is the messenger of the Holy Mother is he not? He would probably be pushing Walter still to do as the Holy Mother wants in his own way.
Or perhaps he can't?
Maybe he's just there to give Walter the ability to resurrect himself into a powerful spirit being and make his dimension in 302.
So really, as we don't have any real proof, then Walter could have just been a crazy,selfish man who had things unfairly done to him but didn't bother fixing it unless it involved killing 21 people. Some deserved it in my opinion (Occult members) everyone else were just either assholes,regular people living their lives, was kind to him as we have Eileen.

Post by **SethSunderland** » 08 Jun 2010

This has gotten a bit off topic lol.

Anyways, I always thought that Eileen mentioning she studied ancient texts was simply a way for herself to justify her own ability to understand the writing. I belive she can because of being possessed, but was reassuring herself.

Post by **Kaiza Killa** » 09 Jun 2010

Kenji wrote:I totally get your frustration, Mephisto.

Walter's like Sephiroth: Because some segment of the fanbase thinks he's hot, they'll go to any lengths to justify every horrible thing he does. Because he's hot.

Oh, and God help anyone who suggests that he isn't a victim of circumstance and, instead, perpetrated these acts of his own free will...

Walter is very unattractive. I do not care either way about his "acts".

H+

Post by **carneeval** » 09 Jun 2010

Seems like the Walter fandom has become the center of most topics on here... I can't understand it as much as the next Silent Hill 4 fan that...Well can't understand it but should we return to the original topic?

Post by **Jonipoon** » 09 Jun 2010

The Adversary wrote:It's clear, I thought, that while in Walter's kingdom one who's entered is "there" in spite of not really being there: Their body is in the real world, asleep, but their soul, whatever, is in the dream world. That's why whenever Henry returns from the dream world, he really just awakens in his bed..

This makes me think of Walter's kingdom as some sort of astral projection.