Do we give Walter too much credit in re: sanity?

[MisterGrey]

Browsing these forums, I notice that most people take it for granted that Walter grew up and realized that the room wasn't really his mother, and that his endeavors were to bring about the birth of God, not "awaken" his mother. I see it argued, "Walter was a grown man, he knew..."

Yet as I played the game, I never looked at it that way. I think that too much credit has been given to Walter's sanity. I think that we're dealing with a seriously deranged individual here; a man who has suffered a complete and utter psychotic break somewhere along the line, and who, despite what we may think, what he might say, he honestly believes that a room is his mother.

The human mind is a funny thing. Many schizophrenics are absolutely convinced that their delusions are not only real, they make perfect sense. Take the case of Richard Trenton Chase, who murdered four people, fucked their corpses, and drank their blood, all because he believed that vampire Nazis were using UFOs to turn his blood into powder via a disease they had planted beneath the bars of soap in his bathroom. The guy permanently fried his brains out on dope, which coupled with some pre-existing mental delusions, made for a very warped individal with a very warped motivation. Now take Walter Sullivan. Being abandoned at birth and raised by a cult who stuck you in a creepy spinning prison is sure to totally fuck with one's mind.

I, for one, must question the level of sanity Walter was working with. [/i]

[TleilaxuEyes]

I agree with you that Walter was insane and still thought Room 302 was his mother. I do indeed think that the cult was using him in an attempt to birth "God," but I DON'T think that he knew that. being with his mother was probably his sole motivation for his crimes.

[amphreded]

I think part of Walter still believes that the Room is his mother. There's a sane part to Walter, especially when he was physically arrested by the authority, but hidden (or dueling) inside, Walter's childhood state of mind dwells.

[JuriDawn]

>Many schizophrenics are absolutely convinced that their delusions are not only real, they make perfect sense.

On what are you basing your diagnosis of schizophrenia?
Also:

After Walter left Wish House, he moved to Pleasant River, a town neighboring Silent Hill. For a while, he lived the life of a normal student, but he was
still filled with bitterness and resentment towards the rest of the world.

I sincerely doubt that someone who had suffered a complete psychotic break could enjoy the life of a normal student. I'm not saying he was as sane and rational as you and I, but he wasn't batshit crazy, either.

[Mis Krist.]

I think he'd have figured something was wrong by the time he hit puberty, realized where babies come from, and that they sure as shit don't come from an apartment room.

Walter's nuts, yeah, but there's also a frightening degree of control in him, too. Enough to be able to pull off a murdering spree, pre-death and post-death, and to be able to realize that he could turn the teachings of the cult against them.

I agree with JuriDawn - he couldn't have lived the life of a normal student, or even gone to college, if he had a complete psychotic break.

[The Adversary]

>he honestly believes that a room is his mother.
Walter wasn't incompetent. He knew how children came about, he knew about birth. He's intelligent enough to expertly remove a person's heart, and sew their body shut within minutes: he's intelligent enough to know that babies aren't born from a room--I'm willing to bet he knows they aren't delivered by The Stork either. . . .

He was also stable enough to organize a mass killing spree of ten people within ten days without being caught.

>I think part of Walter still believes that the Room is his mother.
Well, yeah: His childhood, what vestige of it that remains, as exhibited in the game.

>a creepy spinning prison is sure to totally fuck with one's mind.
You think The Panopticon really looked like that? . . . That's the workings of an overactive imagination: Walter wasn't fed black goo, he wasn't fed the "missing children." He made it all up because he was miserable there. It's a fabrication, a lie--and you believed it.

[toadstool]

I sincerely doubt that someone who had suffered a complete psychotic break could enjoy the life of a normal student. I'm not saying he was as sane and rational as you and I, but he wasn't batshit crazy, either.

he didnt want to be suspected of anything, hindering his later ritual.
he was someone who was just evil and clever, like a pyscho.
any way he read the book about how to summon mother, i think he misread it, becuase it was talkinga bout another type of mother, like a demon bringer or something.
he just wanted to be with her, so he followed the ritual.
he even killed kids for crying out loud!
he doesnt have any remorse, and seems to be ambitous in his quest.
he manipulated the community by pretending to be normal until he began his spree.
he is something else though.
no killer takes time to perfectly sew back a ersons chest, they just take the heart out and leave.
he was just evil, not really insane

[Xev]

He wasn't inherently evil. I believe he became obsessed enough to commit the murders in the exact fashion he chose in accordance with the ritual. I know memorization can be applied and carried out within the insane, but he coexisted with society and had a few scarce friendships at least.
I dont think it was his mother he thought he was awakening as an adult. I think he was after much more. He already knew what he was capable of by creating his "otherworld". Valtiel's introduction into Walter's life as a child Im sure didn't help his sanity, but he knew what he was doing. I just cannot picture him having such a relaxed way about him unless he was patient, determined, focused and confident in his beliefs.

[AuraTwilight]

Furthermore, Walter did feel remorse over killing the Locane twins, nor would I call him evil. Just amoral.

[TleilaxuEyes]

I think he'd have figured something was wrong by the time he hit puberty, realized where babies come from, and that they sure as shit don't come from an apartment room.

It's possible that the cult told him that he was special and unique, that even though other people don't come from apartments, HE does. He could have functioned in normal society if he was trained to pretend that he didn't come from an apartment. That doesn't mean he didn't secretly believe it.

There are many kinds of crazy.

[Mis Krist.]

Do you honestly think Walter would believe any of the shit they told him once he was old enough to think for himself? I honestly, and highly, doubt it. Especially considering that he used the 21 Sacraments as a detrimental cause to the Order, not for them.

[MisterGrey]

I honestly don't know what to think of Walter, which is one of the reasons I started this thread. I, personally, view him as the main character of SH4, not Henry; even if he's only the antagonist and not the central character, I still think Walter is a hell of a lot more compelling a character than Henry.

I don't think Walter is schizo; I merely use this as an example of a type of individual who suffers delusions and believes them to be utterly true. I've had some exposure to the mentally ill/delusional--I have a family member who works in a nursing home that I did volunteer work at, where one of the units is set aside almost exclusively for dementia, and after I got out of high school I did some intern work for the police department for a yer, most of it in the evidence room--so I can see where Walter could have appeared to have been a well adjust, "normal" young man while actually being completely batshit below the surface. Yes, he may have known "where babies come from," but it's amazing what a mentally ill individual can block and rationalize. He may have been able to have carried on a perfectly normal conversation about procreation, conception, but when it came to the topic of his own birth, switched gears, become defensive and angry about his own mother, simply choosing to block out/not believe the "real" details of his birth--because he honestly believed his mother was a fucking room

[The Adversary]

>even if he's only the antagonist and not the central character
Walter is the protagonist.

[MisterGrey]

Maybe in our eyes, but I'd venture to say that the programmers intended Harry for that role. Usually the "good guy" or "central character" is the protagonist. The dictionary defines protagonist as " the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work."

[The Adversary]

Yes, and Walter is, in fact, the "leading character or hero of a drama or other literary work."

Read here. It goes on for several pages, but all that matters is what I've linked you directly, on page four.

[toadstool]

who said he felt remorse for the children being killed? it didnt say that in the game.
all the victims are distorted to henry... maybe walter saw them as that.
any human who goes on a killing spree for whatever reason is crazy.. if that isnt true, then why wad Ed Gien seen as a bad guy? he thought he could be with his mother if he dug up bodies and skinned them up. Not one tear or apology.
at least jefrrey dahmer made an apology to the families he hurt
walter killed people and showed no emotions
his motive was different, thats all

[The Adversary]

>who said he felt remorse for the children being killed?
Supplementary material. Where in Silent Hill 4: The Room does it tell Miriam and Billy Locane's name? That's right, it doesn't, yet we all know who they are because of supplementary material.

[AuraTwilight]

who said he felt remorse for the children being killed? it didnt say that in the game.
all the victims are distorted to henry... maybe walter saw them as that.
any human who goes on a killing spree for whatever reason is crazy.. if that isnt true, then why wad Ed Gien seen as a bad guy? he thought he could be with his mother if he dug up bodies and skinned them up. Not one tear or apology.
at least jefrrey dahmer made an apology to the families he hurt
walter killed people and showed no emotions
his motive was different, thats all

1) As St. Thomas said above, Supplementary Material.

2) Who said anyone who goes on a killing spree is crazy? You don't have to have some kind of psychosis to kill people.

3) Waltar isn't Jeffrrey Dahmer or Ed Gein.

4) Walter showed plenty of emotions.

[toadstool]

where was i then ? he never cried or anything, just shot at henry and eileen

[The Adversary]

That's because the Walter you encounter in the game is an "inhuman killing machine," not a real person.