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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2004
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Not necessarily OUR reality. For example, God seems to exist only in the Otherworld version of the Room.


So you are saying when God is ever born, it is only so in the Otherworld? That makes no sense. The whole purpose of God being born is so that it can merge our reality with the nightmare Otherworld. This would be the "paradise" that the Order is looking for. If the "God" is born successfully, the entire world would be dissolved into the rust, blood, and decay of the Otherworld. This is why it is urgently necessary to prevent the evil bastard from decsending/birthing into the world.

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~ The Sect of Valtiel ~


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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>The whole purpose of God being born is so that it can merge our reality with the nightmare Otherworld.

Who told you that?

>This would be the "paradise" that the Order is looking for.

Who told you that?

>If the "God" is born successfully, the entire world would be dissolved into the rust, blood, and decay of the Otherworld. This is why it is urgently necessary to prevent the evil bastard from decsending/birthing into the world.


Who told you that, so I can piss on them?

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2004
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|>The whole purpose of God being born is so that it can merge our reality with the nightmare Otherworld.

Who told you that?

No one "told me" that. That's just the way it is. God wants to be birthed into physical form so that he can take over the world and destroy all sinners, and since everyone sins, then all humans shall be destroyed. It is the "Bringer of Paradise", so the god's Otherworld will penetrate our reality and "take over" every last bit of our reality changing everything into rust, blood, broken things, and darkness. If this malevolent "God" is born unto us, everything in our reality shall pass and change into the hellish Otherworld. Otherwise, why is it so important for us, the players, to prevent god from being born? If it just stays in Silent Hill and it's Otherworld, then it is no big deal if it is born.

>This would be the "paradise" that the Order is looking for.

Who told you that?

Claudia told me that. She explains this to Heather and Vincent. Vincent doesn't want the original world (reality) to change into the Otherworld, because he loves money and power. If the "god" is born, then he will lose everything and everything shall be chaotic and insanity. Vincent doesn't want to lose his lifestyle.

>If the "God" is born successfully, the entire world would be dissolved into the rust, blood, and decay of the Otherworld. This is why it is urgently necessary to prevent the evil bastard from decsending/birthing into the world.


Who told you that, so I can piss on them?

You want to piss on Team Silent? Seriously though, why is it important to stop the birth of god if nothing happens to our reality? Everything then would stay the same except the god entity would be on the Otherside along with other monsters, gods, and angels. No big deal, just stay out of Silent Hill and its surrounding communities.
If the god is born, then there will be serious consequences for humanity. The "God" will have complete control of the "darkness of the Otherworld" and it will pull everything into the darkness. There all living things shall be tortured and punished for their hiddens secrets and sins! The world as we know it shall be consumed by the decay of the Otherworld. Basically, HELL on Earth!!!

_________________
- Member of the Order -
~ The Sect of Valtiel ~


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
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No one "told me" that. That's just the way it is. God wants to be birthed into physical form so that he can take over the world and destroy all sinners, and since everyone sins, then all humans shall be destroyed. It is the "Bringer of Paradise", so the god's Otherworld will penetrate our reality and "take over" every last bit of our reality changing everything into rust, blood, broken things, and darkness. If this malevolent "God" is born unto us, everything in our reality shall pass and change into the hellish Otherworld. Otherwise, why is it so important for us, the players, to prevent god from being born? If it just stays in Silent Hill and it's Otherworld, then it is no big deal if it is born.


How do you know it's the way it is? Where'd you learn this? How do you know what God wants? Besides, God doesn't need to enter the physical world to effect it. God could theoretically chill out in Otherworld and telekinetically kill people in the real world.

Quote:
Claudia told me that. She explains this to Heather and Vincent. Vincent doesn't want the original world (reality) to change into the Otherworld, because he loves money and power. If the "god" is born, then he will lose everything and everything shall be chaotic and insanity. Vincent doesn't want to lose his lifestyle.


How can we trust either of them? Neither of them seem to be fully trustworthy or believable.

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You want to piss on Team Silent?


Team Silent never said that and you know it.

Quote:
Seriously though, why is it important to stop the birth of god if nothing happens to our reality?


There's a difference between entering/merging with reality and effecting it. Plus there's always the survival deal, since whether or not reality is effected, your character is F'd in the A if God is born.

Quote:
If the god is born, then there will be serious consequences for humanity. The "God" will have complete control of the "darkness of the Otherworld" and it will pull everything into the darkness. There all living things shall be tortured and punished for their hiddens secrets and sins! The world as we know it shall be consumed by the decay of the Otherworld. Basically, HELL on Earth!!!


Prove it.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Edit: Okay, here we go!

"That's just the way it is"? Wow.. Bad way to start off a theory. Not only is their God not a He, but SHE expresses no desire to take over the world--the Order strictly expresses that She will CLEANSE it, Heal it of Sin, etc. That's not dominating or subjugating anyone, if anything that means we're all dead.

The Christians believe in the Rapture, the Second Coming and the Apocalypse. How is the Order's beliefs of Salvation any more sinister than this?

I agree with you about Paradise but I stop agreeing after you say everything will be changed into the nightmare world. You DO realize that that's just the personal nightmare of Alessa, right? Brought forth thanks to the power of God (and is that so illogical? God can make THIS world, why can't God's power make another?) I mentioned in another thread in GD that it isn't God that makes the nightmare what it is, but the materials given to her. Alessa's pain, James' pain, Claudia's and Walter's all directly influence the result of the Otherside and shape it accordingly. God merely has the power to do this.

It's important to kill God for different reasons, outlined by Heather and Harry's personal journeys. Heather admits herself that "[she] has to do this for dad, for myself... and for Claudia." She must put an end to all this for no reason but a personal battle. Harry has no idea what the hell is going on. He just wants his daughter back. He makes no statements, even in the text he left for Heather, that he had to kill God to save mankind. He was thrust into that battle and he fought and prevailed just like he fought and prevailed against all the threats and monsters thrown his way. Why? To see Cheryl. Also a personal reason.

Nope. Claudia's view of Paradise is one of PEACE and tranquility. No suffering, no pain, no war or torment. Hey! That sounds like the direct antithesis of the Otherside, which according to you is what the world will become if God is allowed free reign. Vincent rejects that notion by saying, "Isn't this nothing more than your own personal nightmare? Just like Alessa seventeen years ago?" Well, whaddya know. Your own personal nightmare...

I expressed why its important for the characters who have faced God to kill it. Us, the players, have no part in the game besides being the puppet-master to Harry and Heather.

I also think you need to remember that we have NEVER seen God's proper birth. Ever. At all. It's been an abortive attempt any time we play SH1 or 3. This isn't God in Her true form or power, and if She WAS allowed to live--well, She would bring Paradise, wouldn't She? Again, I ask you to think of the Christian concept of The Second Coming, Rapture and Apocalypse. They too believe that destruction and obliteration of sin is necessary for access to Heaven. But hey, we don't see people mutilating and killing Christians by the score, do we?

Of course there will be serious consequences--just like if the Apocalypse really DOES happen, there will be serious consequences. I do, however, reject every single notion you make about this God having power over darkness (stop watching the movie) or that She will torture humans.

You're beginning to sound like that fool Christabella. It's exasperating.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
God is epicene, neither male nor female.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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But they call their God Her/She so let's stick with that for now.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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Dahlia called it "he."

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Dahlia also gave God the image of Lobsel Vith in her personal vision.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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So? God is still, having been referred to as both sexes, by definition, "epicene." Therefore: it doesn't matter whether you call it he or she, because it's neither & both.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2004
Notes left: 1134
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
The god of the Order was called "He" until Claudia took it over and because of her believing in Alessa as godly, she then changed the god over to be called "She".

Do you really think that if god is born into the world that this entity will "cleanse" everybody of their sins and "save" everybody. This deity is malevolent in nature. It's intentions may be shrouded in mystery, but I know for a fact it is not good. I know this, you know this, we all know this! Taking over the world is not the exact way of putting it. The god more or less, wants to be in complete control of the world. It desires to kill who it wants, torture whoever else, and possibly even spiritually reward the faithful. Will it bring peace on Earth and Paradise for all mankind? Of course NOT! The Order is basing their beliefs upon the "Garden of Eden" and the "Millenium Reign". This deity has tricked its followers into always trying to "birth/descend" it for a reward they will never receive.

It is just like the promise of 99 virgins and endless banquets of undescribably delicious meals by "Allah" if one becomes a suicide bomber and blows themself up along with as many "infidels" as possible. But, this "God" of theirs is not omnipotent and full of love like the Judeo-Christian God is suppose to be. This deity is pure unadulterated chaos and he/she/it is the one in charge of the Otherworld at it's core.

Alessa may have been able to tap into the power of the Otherworld and use it for her own purpose because of the tremendous psychic energy she possesses. But let's face it. No "Lord of Serpent and Reeds", no Otherworld. It is what gives the land and town of Silent Hill its power. Don't forget that the "God" of the Order created many gods and angels. All of these supernatural entities have their own business and duties throughout the land. James can even "feel" the presence of the old gods throughout the land (although subjective). They want complete power. Having their "creator" birthed back into the world shall grant them the control they so long for. The Otherworld might take over our reality. The god might kill everybody. There are many possibilites of what could occur if "God" is born. But, no matter what, we must stop it from happening. Remember though, my vision of paradise could be your vision of hell. My personal nightmare could be a heavenly dream for you.


EDIT - BTW, sorry if anything written above is hard to understand. I'm tried and sometimes when that happens I tend to ramble. My apologies if this is the case. . . Peace!
Scan

_________________
- Member of the Order -
~ The Sect of Valtiel ~


Last edited by Scanman22 on 29 Sep 2007, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: Rhode Island
Wouldn't the God's gender depend on the person and how they visualize God?


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2004
Notes left: 1134
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
LanceS133 wrote:
Wouldn't the God's gender depend on the person and how they visualize God?


I think they are referring to it before it is born. Such as the "god" in the spirit form. I believe the deity chooses to illuminate more masculine qualities and overall traits of control but that is just me. The Order, in some sects, refers to "God" as the "Holy Mother" though. But, oh well. . .
Hmm. . . if that is the case, then why doesn't the Order call the deity - "God-dess" then??? Very peculiar, indeed! :wink:



______________________________________________________________________________

_________________
- Member of the Order -
~ The Sect of Valtiel ~


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Do you really think that if god is born into the world that this entity will "cleanse" everybody of their sins and "save" everybody. This deity is malevolent in nature.


It's only malevolent if it was summoned malevolently.

Quote:
I know this, you know this, we all know this! Taking over the world is not the exact way of putting it. The god more or less, wants to be in complete control of the world. It desires to kill who it wants, torture whoever else, and possibly even spiritually reward the faithful. Will it bring peace on Earth and Paradise for all mankind? Of course NOT! The Order is basing their beliefs upon the "Garden of Eden" and the "Millenium Reign". This deity has tricked its followers into always trying to "birth/descend" it for a reward they will never receive.


I like how you act like you know that the fuck the God wants, it's exact nature, what's going on in it's head, and basically sprouting your speculation as fact like a pompous ass.

Quote:
he/she/it is the one in charge of the Otherworld at it's core.


I disagree.

Quote:
Alessa may have been able to tap into the power of the Otherworld and use it for her own purpose because of the tremendous psychic energy she possesses.


O RLY? What she did was no different than what James or Angela did. The only difference was that she could pull people in, and even that could be chalked up to her emotional power. I don't think her psychic powers have to be involved, here.

Quote:
let's face it. No "Lord of Serpent and Reeds", no Otherworld. It is what gives the land and town of Silent Hill its power. Don't forget that the "God" of the Order created many gods and angels. All of these supernatural entities have their own business and duties throughout the land. James can even "feel" the presence of the old gods throughout the land (although subjective). They want complete power. Having their "creator" birthed back into the world shall grant them the control they so long for. The Otherworld might take over our reality. The god might kill everybody. There are many possibilites of what could occur if "God" is born. But, no matter what, we must stop it from happening. Remember though, my vision of paradise could be your vision of hell. My personal nightmare could be a heavenly dream for you.


God forbid you support any of these statements in the slightest.




And the God is genderless. It can just take on any form.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2004
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Hmmm. . . this has now deteriorated into name-calling and heavy attitude. That's a shame. People shouldn't become so heated over a discussion on an internet message board about a video game.

I wasn't saying anything about Islam. I was just stating what has been said before by lots of individuals and referencing it back just as an example. Calm down.

I believe the deity has its own personality. It does not change based upon what the conjurer wants or believes. That my be the case for appearance, but I don't think it heeds to what the conjurer desires. Did Dahlia summon the "God" to kill her? No. She wanted to control it and have power! The "God" didn't want to be a lap dog, so it zapped her. Nothing in this game, besides the fanaticism of the Order, leads me to believe this "God" is anything but malevolent. The Otherworld is not made of marshmellows and cotton candy. And as far as Alessa goes, she was in control of the Otherworld because of her psychic powers and religious beliefs. The Otherworld bent to her will for 2 reasons -
1. She was a powerful psychic.
2. The god fetus was in her.
James was in a pretty different position. The Otherworld had him on puppet strings.
Claudia could also control the Otherworld a bit. Anyways, the town of Silent Hill because of the Otherworld and its power can "call" people to be sucked within. Who do you think "dialed" to get the people there? IMO = It is the "God" and the deities he/she/it created. Just as Valtiel and Lobsel Vith have their purposes, so do the others not named in that picutre (from the Story of Creation).
I believe it goes - "God"--> Lesser gods and angels --> Otherworld --> Silent Hill

And I never said I know what is going on inside it's "head". My Lord! That is just what I believe. My own opinion/beliefs. I'm not pushing my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. I thought you wanted to know other people's opinions and viewpoints. I like to hear what other's have to say as well. I come here to learn, listen to other viewpoints, discuss theories, and explain my own beliefs. I don't come here to be insulted, given attitude, or made to feel dumb just because some people don't agree with MY viewpoint on certain topics.

_________________
- Member of the Order -
~ The Sect of Valtiel ~


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2007
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Last seen at: Germany
Where is my post gone :| ?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Hmmm. . . this has now deteriorated into name-calling and heavy attitude. That's a shame. People shouldn't become so heated over a discussion on an internet message board about a video game.


Where do you see name-calling and shameful activity?

Quote:
I believe the deity has its own personality. It does not change based upon what the conjurer wants or believes. That my be the case for appearance, but I don't think it heeds to what the conjurer desires.


I believe the opposite, since my interpretation holds God to be no more real than, say, Maria or a Closer.

Quote:
Did Dahlia summon the "God" to kill her? No. She wanted to control it and have power! The "God" didn't want to be a lap dog, so it zapped her. Nothing in this game, besides the fanaticism of the Order, leads me to believe this "God" is anything but malevolent. The Otherworld is not made of marshmellows and cotton candy.


Dahlia wanted EVERYONE to die, and she was laughing as the God killed her. I think it satisfied her desires pretty damn well.

Quote:
And as far as Alessa goes, she was in control of the Otherworld because of her psychic powers and religious beliefs. The Otherworld bent to her will for 2 reasons -
1. She was a powerful psychic.
2. The god fetus was in her.
James was in a pretty different position. The Otherworld had him on puppet strings.


James was just as much in control as Alessa was. James was just only subconsciously aware. Alessa, due to her psychic nature or the fact that she's been dreaming for 7 years, had a semi-conscious control of it. James was NOT on puppet strings, especially since there's no one to pull them.

Quote:
Who do you think "dialed" to get the people there?


The subconscious minds of the victims.

Quote:
I believe it goes - "God"--> Lesser gods and angels --> Otherworld --> Silent Hill


I believe it goes "Human Mind = Otherworld"

Quote:
And I never said I know what is going on inside it's "head". My Lord! That is just what I believe. My own opinion/beliefs. I'm not pushing my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. I thought you wanted to know other people's opinions and viewpoints. I like to hear what other's have to say as well. I come here to learn, listen to other viewpoints, discuss theories, and explain my own beliefs. I don't come here to be insulted, given attitude, or made to feel dumb just because some people don't agree with MY viewpoint on certain topics.


Have all the viewpoints you want. What I'm complaining about is the fact that you support your theories with OTHER theories you have.

"God is X because God is also Y, where X is my main theory while Y is something I pulled out of nowhere to support it."

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
KeeperOfTrampsBar wrote:
Where is my post gone :| ?


Yours and mine was relocated, though not deleted. I felt mine was unnecessary, as well as a large post that only (mostly) talks about Islam in a thread that... well, isn't about Islam.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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