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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Opening Sequence - James in the prison?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
Notes left: 28
I've been digging around on this topic in my free time for a few days now. So far I haven't found any discussions pertaining to it. I don't have a theory myself... I'm fishing for answers.

In the opening sequence of the game, we see James' silhouette in what looks like one of the prison cell blocks, carrying a body. I was fairly convinced from the start that this was the prison, and this just about confirms it:

http://www.translatedmemories.com/bookp ... review.jpg

#9, for those who can't tell. Though, this doesn't confirm that it is Toluca prison. It's kind of obvious that the prison James explores is not Toluca prison as it stands in reality.

When watching the sequence, the thing I tend to notice right away is that there's light shining in the windows. Which immediately rings two bells in my head. One: This is not the underground Abyss version of the prison we experience in the game. Two: The windows in the Abyss prison don't face outside. They face toward the shower room and all else in between. Of course it's entirely possible that this is where the light is coming from, the next room, but .. why? Why would the lights be on in a prison that isn't in use? It looks like sunlight to me, but that's just the impression I get. Maybe because it's shining downward.

Another thing worth noting is when the clip first starts, James seems to have his back turned to the camera, or is at least turned to the side. Perhaps exiting a cell? In any case, he seems to be lifting up that body, and then turns and walks with it toward the camera.

And of course, the body itself is unidentified. But it looks feminine to me, and even if I couldn't make it out at all, I'd still guess female just based on James' situation.

Now... Normally I'd think I'm looking too much into it. But this clip, or anything like it, does NOT appear in the game, and yet it's there in the opening sequence. It can't not be important, can it?

Any answers or ideas on this matter?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Well, the Abyss!prison isn't underground either, as you venture outside of it to the courtyard (to get the horseshoe). And the body is clearly Mary or even Maria--I mean, both women look alike and you can just... tell. I dunno, that's how I always saw it *shrug*.

I'm pretty sure if anything this little sequence represents a symbolic sort of portrayal of James' mental state after Mary's death. I don't know if I should go into more detail than that but I'd suggest to watch the way James moves, how everything is so shadowed and obscured--even in her death, James is still "burdened" with this woman, he's still trapped because he can't escape the memory of her or the pain of her loss.

There's more than a few things in that opening sequence that weren't used in the game (Laura peeping into a bedroom strewn with medication, smiling; Angela running through a large, white house; Laura kicking Eddie while they sit near a van) but I think they either symbolize something or are 'scrapped ideas.' James in prison, to me, is a symbol.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 19 Feb 2007
Notes left: 732
Last seen at: Midwich Elementary School
also in a trailer there are shots of pyramid head in the streets, maybe its just something else that didn't make the final cut :)

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1482
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
You can't trust on game trailers, and definetly not speculate around them. The scenes that were used in the opening sequence for Silent Hill 2 are undoubtedly shots from a very early product, and the scenes that didn't make it to the final product are therefor unrelevant. (thus, not symbolic)

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2008
Notes left: 92
Last seen at: Arkham, Mass
As much as I love the scenes in the opening sequence and trailers, I personally don't put any stock in them as they weren't used for a reason. For whatever reason that is, they didn't make the final cut and were tossed out as actual in game sequences.

But I do sometimes wonder about them.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Of course they're symbolic. One only needs to look at the images and think, "Hey, that ties in with < such and such > on a figurative and emotional level."

Your signature is very appropriate.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>maybe its just something else that didn't make the final cut
Well, in regards to the red pyramid thing stalking the streets, this is true--it was originally implemented but cut.

The sequence w/ Laura talking to Eddie next to a white van was originally going to be the scene in Pete's Bowl-O-Rama but Team Silent decided to move the scene indoors so that Laura wouldn't see Maria.

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Last edited by The Adversary on 05 Apr 2008, edited 1 time in total.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2006
Notes left: 370
Last seen at: Canada
Analyzing SH2 is alot like analyzing a movie by Bergman. You can interpret the hell out of everything you see as pretty much every image/setting has a deeper meaning, or you can merely take it for what it is. The prison motif in the game is fairly consistent, though, so it's hard to just pass it on as just another setting. On the other hand, the scene described could just as easily be interpreted as something cool the designers put together to fit the atmosphere or just use a tidbit for the trailer. I pretty much keep my analytical side open while playing the game itself instead of relying on outside sources.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
Notes left: 1323
Last seen at: Minnesota
Look at the lips of the body: They're moving, like the person is talking.

I always thought this was part of the Rebirth ending, but I guess not...


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 25 Jul 2007
Notes left: 304
Last seen at: Georgia Institue of Technology
Video Gamer wrote:
Look at the lips of the body: They're moving, like the person is talking.

I always thought this was part of the Rebirth ending, but I guess not...


Really? You see them in the hospital room after Laura looks you in the room with the "hanger boss"

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Howling moon drives on
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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
Notes left: 1323
Last seen at: Minnesota
silenthillwhore wrote:
Video Gamer wrote:
Look at the lips of the body: They're moving, like the person is talking.

I always thought this was part of the Rebirth ending, but I guess not...


Really? You see them in the hospital room after Laura looks you in the room with the "hanger boss"

I meant the lips of the dead body, not the monster "Lustful Lips."


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
Notes left: 28
Krist. wrote:
Well, the Abyss!prison isn't underground either, as you venture outside of it to the courtyard (to get the horseshoe). And the body is clearly Mary or even Maria--I mean, both women look alike and you can just... tell. I dunno, that's how I always saw it *shrug*.

I'm pretty sure if anything this little sequence represents a symbolic sort of portrayal of James' mental state after Mary's death. I don't know if I should go into more detail than that but I'd suggest to watch the way James moves, how everything is so shadowed and obscured--even in her death, James is still "burdened" with this woman, he's still trapped because he can't escape the memory of her or the pain of her loss.

There's more than a few things in that opening sequence that weren't used in the game (Laura peeping into a bedroom strewn with medication, smiling; Angela running through a large, white house; Laura kicking Eddie while they sit near a van) but I think they either symbolize something or are 'scrapped ideas.' James in prison, to me, is a symbol.


I suppose it makes more sense if one looks at it as a symbol rather than an actual scene. Thanks. As far as the other missing scenes in the opener go, symbolism only makes sense. IE Angela in the white house. I've seen speculation before that Angela's own version of Silent Hill is her house or whatever, but the discussions didn't entirely make sense to me until I realized that scene was there.

The game isn't entirely fresh in my mind, but the prison courtyard always struck me as an enclosed room same as all the others. In reality it probably would not have been enclosed, but I remember it being so in the game. I might have to look again when I get some free time.

As far as who the body is... Well. I can't make out a thing, but it only makes sense for it to be Mary. If we're applying the symbol idea, then it makes the chances of it being Maria pretty slim. Not impossible, but slim.

I always separated the out-of-game scenes in the trailers and the opening sequence by just that: One made the final cut and one didn't. As far as the trailers go, there's usually a reasonable explanation why those scenes were cut. But the scenes in the intro are different. They weren't cut because, even if they didn't make it into the game, they're still relevant and still important. So I have a hard time viewing anything in the opening as scrapped ideas. Even if they are just little hints and symbols, they still have meaning.

Video Gamer wrote:
I meant the lips of the dead body, not the monster "Lustful Lips."


I don't see them moving.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2008
Notes left: 92
Last seen at: Arkham, Mass
Isa wrote:
Krist. wrote:
The game isn't entirely fresh in my mind, but the prison courtyard always struck me as an enclosed room same as all the others. In reality it probably would not have been enclosed, but I remember it being so in the game. I might have to look again when I get some free time.


It's enclosed in the sense that it's encircled by four walls, but it has a very outside look to it. Dirt and grass and rocks on the ground, outside walls as opposed to inside walls, doors that have more of an 'entrance' look to them... A lot like the courtyard in the school in SH1.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 30 May 2007
Notes left: 959
Last seen at: a dead cloverfeild...
The body is Marias. If you watch the cutscene again you will see that the body is wearing marias boots
Quote:
I'm pretty sure if anything this little sequence represents a symbolic sort of portrayal of James' mental state after Mary's death.

I agee with everything you said exept the last part. I beleive that cutscene represents james state of mind after maria died in the abyss. If You try to click on the door to get back into the room marias corpse is in he says something along the lines of 'I just dont want to leave her here but there is nothing I can do'.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
Notes left: 28
misskatonic wrote:

It's enclosed in the sense that it's encircled by four walls, but it has a very outside look to it. Dirt and grass and rocks on the ground, outside walls as opposed to inside walls, doors that have more of an 'entrance' look to them... A lot like the courtyard in the school in SH1.


Yes, but that doesn't mean it was literally out in the open. It had the four walls, whose to say there isn't a roof as well? It looks to me like an enclosed snippet of the actual courtyard, which would indeed be outside.

King Crimson wrote:
The body is Marias. If you watch the cutscene again you will see that the body is wearing marias boots
Quote:
I'm pretty sure if anything this little sequence represents a symbolic sort of portrayal of James' mental state after Mary's death.

I agee with everything you said exept the last part. I beleive that cutscene represents james state of mind after maria died in the abyss. If You try to click on the door to get back into the room marias corpse is in he says something along the lines of 'I just dont want to leave her here but there is nothing I can do'.


Maria died in the Labyrinth, after the prison. And I can't really see the boots. I think I see what you mean, but it's more likely James' hand, as it's above the knee rather than below it where Maria's boots reach.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 30 May 2007
Notes left: 959
Last seen at: a dead cloverfeild...
Quote:
Maria died in the Labyrinth,

maria died in a prison cell. They probly made the scene before they made the abyss/labyrinth.

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Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
Notes left: 28
I... seriously doubt they actually made that whole scene before they knew they were going to make the labyrinth. Especially considering the prison IS the beginning of the Abyss. Maria died in a prison cell, yes, one inexplicably located in the labyrinth.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 30 May 2007
Notes left: 959
Last seen at: a dead cloverfeild...
the prison scene where maria is talking to james was one of the first ideas that team silent had for silent hill 2.

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Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
Notes left: 28
Now that's something I didn't know. Alright, makes more sense now. Thanks for that little tidbit.

So we're back to square one as far as who the body is. It could be Mary, it could be Maria... In all technicality, they're the same person. It goes in the same direction no matter which one it is: James still feels trapped and burdened by this whole situation, be it simply because Mary is dead, or because Maria died again.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1482
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
Krist. wrote:
Of course they're symbolic. One only needs to look at the images and think, "Hey, that ties in with < such and such > on a figurative and emotional level."

Your signature is very appropriate.


Well, at least we can imagine they are. Even if it is Silent Hill, you can't find a meaning behind everything.

Besides... my signature is to be taken with a pinch of salt. :wink:

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