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 Post subject: Why Laura Didn't Find Mary
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
The purpose of this theory is to explain why Laura searched for Mary in Silent Hill, and did not find her. Obviously, this post contains major spoilers. If you have not played the game, turn back now. You have been warned. I'm going to base this theory purely on the "Leave" ending. I won't go too deep into the history of Mary and Laura, because that is not the purpose. If you have played the game, then that is merely review for you anyhow. To start off, a few points that we know to be fact. Laura is an innocent. She is presumably in Silent Hill, looking for Mary of her own volition. She was not called, nor has any sin or guilt in her heart. She is pure. She has no delusions and does not see the Silent Hill that James, Angela and Eddie see. I believe the notion that the two met one more time is not concretely supported, nor necessarily concretely discredited either. However, I believe it to be more supported that they in fact did not. With that in mind, enjoy. I welcome your comments/criticisms.

First of all, I believe that the notion that Mary and Laura had one final meeting is simply wishful thinking. That's unjust though right? How come she went all that way, all alone, only to come up empty handed? But did she really come up empty handed? I submit to you that even happy endings in Silent Hill are not devoid of dark spots. Next, Laura is an orphan, you might say Mary was the closest thing she had to a real mother. Mary cared for Laura, so its only natural that Laura would seek her out after getting her letter. Recall that during their time in the hospital, Mary showed Laura pictures of Silent Hill and told her about their trips. She knew it was special to Mary, so she found a way to Silent Hill to search for Mary. Throughout your journey in Silent Hill 2, you run into Laura on several different occasions. Obviously, Laura does not appear in the Abyss/Labyrinth.

It is important to mention that Silent Hill 2 is the story of James and Mary. Not James, Mary and Laura. Laura, like Angela and Eddie are merely supporting characters. However, James and Laura are connected by their common search for Mary. We know she has a particular distaste for James which only is exacerbated when she finds James killed Mary. Some believe James should have told a "lie of omission" and said she was sick and that's how she died and let Laura go on to believe that. Laura even says that herself. I believe this works against the notion Laura and Mary met one last time. Had Mary and Laura met once more she would have uncovered the real truth: that James did in fact murder Mary. This would have deepened Laura's dislike for James and would have made her less inclined to want to leave with James, much less let him adopt her. I reject the notion that Mary would have explained that it was done out of mercy. To a child, murder is wrong. Its right and wrong, black and white. When you are a child, there is no middle ground, no in between. Further solidifying its James' fault Laura can't be with Mary. Therefore, reducing the chance that Laura will trust James.

Secondly, let's assume for a moment there was a meeting. Mary appears to Laura and they have one final meeting, but Mary cannot stay with Laura. Laura has to leave once again without Mary. In her letter, Mary also states that she is in a "quiet, beautiful place." She didn't tell Laura she died. This would break Laura's heart. It also stands to reason this could create some ill-feelings toward Mary. Laura may have felt betrayed and lied to. Furthermore, it teaches Laura an important lesson by not seeing Mary once more. Mary is dead. Laura needs to learn that means Mary is not coming back and that Laura should move on with her life. She should try to be happy and not hang on to the past. She needs to learn to let go. If Mary appeared to Laura one more time, it could screw up Laura's perception of death. She needs to learn death is final. She might start to believe that anyone who dies would come back (though I realize that point is a bit of a stretch.) We also must take into account that Mary knew she was dying. She didn't know she was going to be murdered, but knew she was close to death. Mary had no intention of appearing to anyone after she died. In this respect, it is not as if Mary chose to appear only to James and purposefully left Laura out.

Perhaps the most important facet of this theory is the letter to Laura. The way I see it, the letter is Mary's final word (or meeting, if you will) to Laura. Mary mentions she would have liked to adopt Laura. I would argue that after his final talk with Mary, James feels the need to adopt Laura partly to make up for his crime. He feels the need to do something good, to forgive himself. As an adult, he probably also feels a sense of responsibility. He shouldn't leave this little girl alone in such a place. Besides, up until the point of the Lakeview Hotel, Laura still has not found Mary. She asks James if he has and if not then they should leave.

Quote:
So there you are, James. Did you get the letter? Did you find Mary? If not, let's get going already.


This quote almost suggests that Laura is losing interest. Of course, this is just before James reveals he killed Mary, but I believe it changes nothing. I believe that after the final confrontation with Maria and the conversation with Mary, James catches up with Laura. I don't know exactly what happens next, a conversation of some sort ensues. Maybe he tells her the whole truth and she understands. Maybe he tells her of his final meeting with Mary. James promises to give her a good home and take care of her, because that's what Mary would have wanted for Laura. Though I don't believe James does this just because Mary would have wanted it. Mary also wanted James to go on with his life. In this act, the connection between James and Laura is completed and they can go on with their lives. Finally, it may seem unjust that the two didn't get to meet one last time. It may not seem right. However, as we learned in the SH3 OST's "Hometown" track, "this movie doesn't end the way we want all the time." It is for these reasons that I believe a final face to face meeting between Laura and Mary simply did not happen.

--
EDIT (03/25/20): Cleaned up some characters.
EDIT (04/04/09): Cleaned up some aspects of the post, rewrote/removed some things for clarity.

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Last edited by jthomp1286 on 26 Mar 2020, edited 9 times in total.

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She has no delusions and does not see the Silent Hill that James, Angela and Eddie see.


Well, she does see her own Otherworld of misty, empty, streets, teddy bears, possible streets and locations not matching up to reality, and happy child's drawings, all representing her loneliness, but yes, you're right otherwise.

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First of all, I want to offer that the notion they had one final meeting is simply wishful thinking. That’s unjust though right? How come she went all that way, all alone, only to come up empty handed? But did she really come up empty handed? I submit to you that even happy endings in Silent Hill are not devoid of dark spots.


While this argument is flawless for the other three endings, "Leave" implies that Laura has forgiven James, and it's hard to see what else but Mary could change her mind. Thus, it's not "simply wishful thinking", even if it is a pleasant thought.

Quote:
First and foremost it is important to mention that one of the central points of this theory is that Silent Hill 2 is the story of James and Mary. Not James, Mary and Laura. Laura, like Angela and Eddie are merely supporting characters. However, do not misunderstand. Clearly, James and Laura are connected by their common search for Mary. However, we know she has a particular distaste for James which only is exacerbated when she finds James killed Mary. Some believe James should have told a "lie of omission" and said she was sick and that's how she died and let Laura go on to believe that. Laura even says that herself. I believe this is one point against the notion Laura and Mary met one last time. Had Mary and Laura met once more, she would have uncovered the real truth, that James did in fact murder Mary. This would have deepened Laura's dislike for James and would have made her less inclined to want to leave with James, much less let him adopt her. I reject the notion that Mary would have explained that it was done out of mercy. To a child, murder is wrong. Its right and wrong, black and white. When you are a child, there is no middle ground, no in between. Further solidifying its James' fault Laura can't be with Mary. Therefore, reducing the chance that Laura will trust James.


Children aren't THAT morally unambiguous. If Mary explained that James killed her out of love and didn't want her to suffer, and that Mary was going to die anyway, and that Mary, atleast in part, wanted to die, I'm sure Laura would understand. And I would have to disagree; though her part is small, her effect on the general chemistry of the entire cast make me feel that it's the story of James, Mary, and Laura as a family that never was.

Quote:
Secondly, let's assume for a moment there was a meeting. Mary appears to Laura and they have one final meeting, but Mary cannot stay with Laura. Laura has to leave, once again without Mary. In her letter, Mary also states that she is in a "quiet, beautiful place." She didn't tell Laura she died. This would break Laura's heart. It also stands to reason this could create some ill-feelings toward Mary. Furthermore, it teaches Laura an important lesson by not seeing Mary once more. Mary is dead. Laura needs to learn that means Mary is not coming back and that Laura should move on with her life. She should try to be happy and not hang on to the past. She needs to learn to let go. If Mary appeared to Laura one more time, it could screw up Laura's perception of death. She needs to learn death is final. She might start to believe that anyone who dies would come back. Obviously, this is far fetched but I'm making a point. We also must take into account that Mary knew she was dying. She didn't know she was going to be murdered, but knew she was close to death. Mary had no intention of appearing to anyone after she died. In this respect, it is not as if Mary chose to appear only to James and purposefully left Laura out.


Well, death in Silent Hill isn't exactly final, but that's aside from the point. Laura would obviously never have any bad feelings towards Mary, her little mind just isn't capable. Mary could explain that she "only has a little time" and "I have a train to heaven to catch" or some little explanation like that for a child. She could also explain that Mary's return in a special, one-time thing, because Silent Hill is "My special, sacred place." Without closure, Laura will just wander that town forever. She'd never just give up and leave.

Quote:
Perhaps the most important facet of this theory is the letter to Laura. The way I see it, this is Mary's final word (or meeting, if you will) to Laura. Mary mentions she would have liked to adopt Laura. I would argue that after his final talk with Mary, James feels the need to adopt Laura partly to make up for his crime. He feels the need to do something good, to forgive himself. As an adult, he probably also feels a sense of responsibility. He shouldn’t leave this little girl alone in such a place. Besides, up until the point of the Lakeview Hotel, Laura still has not found Mary. She asks James if he has and if not then they should leave. "So there you are, James. Did you get the letter? Did you find Mary? If not, let's get going already." This quote almost suggests that Laura is losing interest. Of course, this is just before James reveals he killed Mary, but I believe it changes nothing. I believe that after the final confrontation with Maria and the conversation with Mary, James catches up with Laura. I don't know exactly what happens next, a conversation of some sort ensues. Maybe he tells her the whole truth and she understands. Maybe he tells her of his final meeting with Mary (yes I realize in some ways this contradicts my previous points about the finality of death, but I offer it only for the sake of explanation). James promises to give her a good home and take care of her, because that's what Mary would have wanted for Laura. Though don't misunderstand, I don't believe James does this just because Mary would have wanted it. Mary also wanted James to go on with his life. In this act, the connection between James and Laura is completed and they can go on with their lives. Finally, it may seem unjust that the two didn’t get to meet one last time. It may not seem right. However, I believe it is these points among others that lend substantial support to the notion that a final physical, face to face meeting between Laura and Mary simply did not happen.


Mary's letter to James were supposed to be her last words to him too. Obviously things change. Plus, I doubt Laura would listen to James' explanation anyway, and might become so angry at him that their Otherworlds might not even be able to overlap, if intense enough.

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AuraTwilight wrote:
Thus, it's not "simply wishful thinking", even if it is a pleasant thought.


Yes, we'd all love for James, Mary and Laura to live happily ever after in a place that isn't Silent Hill. That just simply does not and cannot happen. Much like life, things don't always turn out the way you want them to. This is another lesson Laura would learn from the experience.

AuraTwilight wrote:
Well, death in Silent Hill isn't exactly final, but that's aside from the point. Laura would obviously never have any bad feelings towards Mary, her little mind just isn't capable. Mary could explain that she "only has a little time" and "I have a train to heaven to catch" or some little explanation like that for a child. She could also explain that Mary's return in a special, one-time thing, because Silent Hill is "My special, sacred place." Without closure, Laura will just wander that town forever. She'd never just give up and leave.


Death is not final in Silent Hill in rare cases. Cybil died. Harry died. Angela died. Eddie died. You say her "little mind isn't capable" of being angry at Mary, yet she's capable of understanding a merciful murder? That just doesn't match up. Laura will not wander the town forever and yes she would give up and leave. She is a little girl, she is not capable of fully caring for herself.

AuraTwilight wrote:
Mary's letter to James were supposed to be her last words to him too. Obviously things change. Plus, I doubt Laura would listen to James' explanation anyway, and might become so angry at him that their Otherworlds might not even be able to overlap, if intense enough.


Their Otherworlds? In the "Leave" ending, I believe that James and Laura both leave the "foggy" Silent Hill, though I still do not believe Laura has her own "Otherworld" because she has nothing to atone for. That doesn't mean they can't interact, it just means they don't see the same things.

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QUOTE: Some believe James should have told a "lie of omission" and said she was sick and that's how she died and let Laura go on to believe that.

By some, you mean me, JThomp. And I stand by what I said. James did not know he was going to meet Mary. He could not have known Laura would either. And even if she had met Mary afterward, I think that Mary might well have confirmed James's story, because she loved Laura and didn't want her to be consumed by anger and hate. Have you even READ "Final Encounters"? It may delve into backstory too much (since Aura and I have had some fierce arguments, it pains me to admit it when he is right, but he was), but I really do think it "gets" the way Laura and Mary would have interacted.

The condensation of your arguments is as follows:

1. A last meeting would have uncovered that James murdered Mary.
This is rendered irrelevant by in-game events. The truth was uncovered already.

2. A last meeting would screw up Laura's preceptions about death.
A moderately valid point, I suppose. It's conceivable that Mary would choose not to appear to Laura because she wanted her to go on with her life. But it seems like a rather compassionless way to go about it, and Mary does not strike me as that type. I think that she would want to leave her child with hope, not despair.

QUOTE: Mary could explain that she "only has a little time" and "I have a train to heaven to catch" or some little explanation like that for a child.

Again, Aura is right.

3. So that James can adopt Laura.
If Laura does not encounter Mary, she will not consent to be adopted by the man who murdered her. See my latest post in "Laura's Fate Post-game".


Last edited by Oddish on 27 Sep 2008, edited 2 times in total.

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Oddish wrote:
By some, you mean me, JThomp. And I stand by what I said.


Would you like me to edit my post and give you credit for it solely? Do you really think you're the only one with this viewpoint? Who said what is irrelevant. Get over it.

Oddish wrote:
James did not know he was going to meet Mary. He could not have known Laura would either. And even if she had met Mary afterward, I think that Mary would have confirmed James's story, because she loved her and didn't want her to be consumed by anger and hate. Have you even READ "Final Encounters"? It may delve into backstory too much (since Aura and I have had some fierce arguments, it pains me to admit it when he is right, but he was), but I really do think it "gets" the way Laura and Mary would have interacted.


Of course he didn't know he was going to meet Mary. "A dead person can't write a letter." Right? No I have not read "Final Encounters", I'm sticking with the Silent Hill 2 story only. I don't consider fan-fiction a reliable source.


Oddish wrote:
1. A last meeting would have uncovered that James murdered Mary.
This is rendered irrelevant by in-game events. The truth was uncovered already.


That depends on when you believe a meeting happened. Since the entire purpose of my theory is to argue against it, this renders your point invalid.

Oddish wrote:
2. A last meeting would screw up Laura's preceptions about death.
Why? Because she would have seen that even though Mary's body was dead, her spirit lived on?


Irrelevant. Mary is dead regardless. There is no talk of Heaven and Hell. We don't know if Laura believes Mary is in Heaven or not. I'm not going to comment on whether she does or not, because we are given no clues.

Oddish wrote:
3. So that James can adopt Laura.
If Laura does not encounter Mary, she will not consent to be adopted by the man who murdered her.


Not true. I covered this throughout my theory.

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I posted this is a previous topic, but it's relevant here, so I will reiterate:

So your scenario is: Laura is hiding somewhere after her conversation with James, crying, heartbroken, and devastated, consumed by rage, believing that James (who she already disliked) has murdered the one person on the planet who cares about her. James searches the area, roots her out, chases her down, tackles her, wrestles her into submission, forces her to sit still while he tells her his version of events (which Mary isn't around to confirm). And after all that, she's not only going to leave with him, she's actually going to be willing to live with him. Is that it, or am I missing something?

Quite frankly, I believe that like I believe in the Easter Bunny.


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Oddish wrote:
I posted this is a previous topic, but it's relevant here, so I will reiterate:

So your scenario is: Laura is hiding somewhere after her conversation with James, crying, heartbroken, and devastated, consumed by rage, believing that James (who she already disliked) has murdered the one person on the planet who cares about her. James searches the area, roots her out, chases her down, tackles her, wrestles her into submission, forces her to sit still while he tells her his version of events (which Mary isn't around to confirm). And after all that, she's not only going to leave with him, she's actually going to be willing to live with him. Is that it, or am I missing something?


That isn't how it plays out in my theory. Not all of their encounters are hostile, just as not all of their conversations are. James is an adult, Laura is a child. Yelling and wrestling a kid into submission does not make them want to listen. Would that have made you want to listen? Besides, after his final meeting with Mary, why would James trap Laura like that? I believe they have a conversation of some sort and Laura understands and James offers to give her a home and take care of her, like Mary wanted to do. I believe he gives her a choice, and she accepts.

Oddish wrote:
Quite frankly, I believe that like I believe in the Easter Bunny


You are inclined to believe what you want, it does not change my belief whatsoever. So by all means, write out your own theory and let everyone else make up their minds. I wrote this theory knowing full well not everyone would agree, but I present it as a possibility nonetheless.

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QUOTE: Yelling and wrestling a kid into submission does not make them want to listen. Would that have made you want to listen? Besides, after his final meeting with Mary, why would James trap Laura like that?

Because she thinks he killed her "mother". Any time she sees him from now on, she's going to run away.


QUOTE: I wrote this theory knowing full well not everyone would agree, but I present it as a possibility nonetheless.

And you are most welcome to do so. And as Morpheus said, my beliefs do not require that you believe as I do.


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Oddish wrote:
And you are most welcome to do so. And as Morpheus said, my beliefs do not require that you believe as I do.


Precisely.

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Death is not final in Silent Hill in rare cases. Cybil died. Harry died. Angela died. Eddie died. You say her "little mind isn't capable" of being angry at Mary, yet she's capable of understanding a merciful murder? That just doesn't match up. Laura will not wander the town forever and yes she would give up and leave. She is a little girl, she is not capable of fully caring for herself.


Assumption after assumption. The cases of Cybil and Angela aside, how does holding Mary as a perfect ideal equate to Laura being unable to handle moral grays? And given the nature of Silent Hill, it's very possible for Laura to wander the streets forever, either never having needs, or being provided for them (I've once entertained the notion that Eddie only got the pizza because he overlapped with Laura's world, where pizza existed).

Quote:
Their Otherworlds? In the "Leave" ending, I believe that James and Laura both leave the "foggy" Silent Hill, though I still do not believe Laura has her own "Otherworld" because she has nothing to atone for. That doesn't mean they can't interact, it just means they don't see the same things.


Otherworlds aren't created on the basis of sin, just strong emotion and thought. Laura's obviously not in reality, so the Otherworld is the only other place to be.

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AuraTwilight wrote:
Assumption after assumption. The cases of Cybil and Angela aside, how does holding Mary as a perfect ideal equate to Laura being unable to handle moral grays?


Assumption? Laura is eight years old, surely you can't expect her to understand the concept of a murder of mercy. Go ahead, go find an eight year old and ask them.

AuraTwilight wrote:
And given the nature of Silent Hill, it's very possible for Laura to wander the streets forever, either never having needs, or being provided for them (I've once entertained the notion that Eddie only got the pizza because he overlapped with Laura's world, where pizza existed).


The nature of Silent Hill argument is a copout. Laura is the only pure character in the game (you might argue so is Mary, but that's besides the point), why should she be doomed to walk the streets of Silent Hill forever? Do you really believe an eight year old would give up on life that easily? I even suggest Mary was the closest thing she's ever had to a mother and probably the only one she ever believed cared about her, but the loss of that person doesn't doom her. Have you ever lost a loved one? You grieve and you move on. Its life. That's something Laura must learn as well. Lastly, its a bowling alley, of course they had pizza. Occam's Razor.

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That is an interesting point. Presumably, you cannot leave Silent Hill until the issue that brought you there is resolved. So if Laura cannot get closure, is she trapped in an empty town? Maybe she's in the same private hell as the others, she just doesn't know it yet. Scary thought.

Still, although I can't provide definitive evidence, I think Laura can leave any time she wants. I think that it is the guilt that traps you there, just as it causes you to see monsters. Since Laura has no guilt, she isn't trapped. Even if James faces a different fate, she ultimately leaves Silent Hill and tries to move on with her life.


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They do murder and mercy in Disney films. You're not giving Laura enough credit, she seems very smart and grown-up for her age. Probably the hospital life she's apparently lived made her so.
Well thought-out theory but I saw Laura as a different personality in the game.
And I know I knew and understood stuff like she must be going through in this game at that age, not going to elaborate on that here.

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Oddish wrote:
That is an interesting point. Presumably, you cannot leave Silent Hill until the issue that brought you there is resolved. So if Laura cannot get closure, is she trapped in an empty town? Maybe she's in the same private hell as the others, she just doesn't know it yet. Scary thought.


It is a scary thought, for sure. However, I believe that only applies to those who have something to atone for.

Oddish wrote:
I think Laura can leave any time she wants. I think that it is the guilt that traps you there, just as it causes you to see monsters. Since Laura has no guilt, she isn't trapped.


This is my belief as well.

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That's a good point, Kupo. Laura's resided at a hospital for a long time, so she's probably seen more death in her eight years than some people see in eighty. She might have even been in the area when some elderly, lingering patient had their life support machinery turned off. And it's far from unreasonable that she and Mary have discussed the subject before. So maybe she's more capable of understanding the moral complexity of James's action than most. Still, that doesn't change my overall stance on the matter being discussed in this topic.


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Assumption? Laura is eight years old, surely you can't expect her to understand the concept of a murder of mercy. Go ahead, go find an eight year old and ask them.


I can name four.

Quote:
The nature of Silent Hill argument is a copout. Laura is the only pure character in the game (you might argue so is Mary, but that's besides the point), why should she be doomed to walk the streets of Silent Hill forever?


Silent Hill doesn't take just sinful people, they're just the only ones who are called; but although she went of her own volition, Laura finds herself in an Otherworld born from her strongest thoughts and emotions: A world made of loneliness.

Quote:
Do you really believe an eight year old would give up on life that easily?


Given that it's Laura? HELL YES. Children are prone to running from reality for idealistic fantasy, and one like Laura, who only knows a shit reality with nothing tying her to it, is dangerously, dangerously close to just up and leaving the real world.

And it's not like it hasn't been done before; Look at Walter.

Quote:
Have you ever lost a loved one? You grieve and you move on. Its life. That's something Laura must learn as well.


Agreed, but seeing Mary one last time won't interfere that way.

Quote:
Lastly, its a bowling alley, of course they had pizza. Occam's Razor.


FRESH pizza? In that dingy, abandoned bowling alley?

Quote:
Still, although I can't provide definitive evidence, I think Laura can leave any time she wants. I think that it is the guilt that traps you there, just as it causes you to see monsters. Since Laura has no guilt, she isn't trapped. Even if James faces a different fate, she ultimately leaves Silent Hill and tries to move on with her life.


I agree, but that's the same with all the characters in SH2. If Laura has no reason to leave, she's not going to, and she'll be "Stuck" there forever.

Quote:
That's a good point, Kupo. Laura's resided at a hospital for a long time, so she's probably seen more death in her eight years than some people see in eighty. She might have even been in the area when some elderly, lingering patient had their life support machinery turned off. And it's far from unreasonable that she and Mary have discussed the subject before. So maybe she's more capable of understanding the moral complexity of James's action than most. Still, that doesn't change my overall stance on the matter being discussed in this topic.


Again, I agree. She's a child, but she has adult experiences, and thus, it's even easier to accept Mary's words if she explained it as a mercy killing that James did out of love.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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AuraTwilight wrote:
seeing Mary one last time won't interfere that way.


False. This directly conflicts with my points about Laura needing to learn the finality of death. Seeing Mary one last time would confuse her. Laura isn't an ordinary child, I'll give you that, but she's still a child.

AuraTwilight wrote:
FRESH pizza? In that dingy, abandoned bowling alley?


Its pizza nonetheless. You said pizza, there's your pizza.

AuraTwilight wrote:
I agree, but that's the same with all the characters in SH2. If Laura has no reason to leave, she's not going to, and she'll be "Stuck" there forever.


False. Laura is not held or "stuck" in Silent Hill. She can leave whenever she wants. She will, and she does.

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That's a good point, Kupo. Laura's resided at a hospital for a long time, so she's probably seen more death in her eight years than some people see in eighty. She might have even been in the area when some elderly, lingering patient had their life support machinery turned off. And it's far from unreasonable that she and Mary have discussed the subject before. So maybe she's more capable of understanding the moral complexity of James's action than most.


Going on this logic, it also stands to reason she would understand the same thing coming from James. Therefore she is more likely to understand James' position, forgive him and leave with him.

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QUOTE: False. This directly conflicts with my points about Laura needing to learn the finality of death. Seeing Mary one last time would confuse her. Laura isn't an ordinary child, I'll give you that, but she's still a child.

I think that it would be more important to Mary to allow her "daughter" some real closure, and to help her to forgive James. Whether James actions were merciful or despicable, hate is like acid: it does far more damage to the hater than it does to the hated.


Going on this logic, it also stands to reason she would understand the same thing coming from James. Therefore she is more likely to understand James' position, forgive him and leave with him.

However, James is the murderer, Mary was the victim. James was disliked by Laura, Mary was adored. James was a virtual stranger, Mary was the closest thing to a mother she knew. That means that a statement from James would be easy for Laura to cast aside. Rejecting a similar statement from Mary would be impossible.


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Oddish wrote:
I think that it would be more important to Mary to allow her "daughter" some real closure, and to help her to forgive James. Whether James actions were merciful or despicable, hate is like acid: it does far more damage to the hater than it does to the hated.


It would be important except Mary never intended for these events to happen. In SH4, James' father mentions that James and his wife disappeared. Should she also appear to him and give him closure? And besides, hate is different to an eight year old and say a twenty-one year old.

Oddish wrote:
However, James is the murderer, Mary was the victim. James was disliked by Laura, Mary was adored. James was a virtual stranger, Mary was the closest thing to a mother she knew. That means that a statement from James would be easy for Laura to cast aside. Rejecting a similar statement from Mary would be impossible.


Ah but going on your example of Laura and Mary discussing someone pulling the plug on somebody else's life support. That could be construed as a merciful murder. To Laura is that person a murderer too? James' and Laura's relationship is a rocky one for sure. There are times when they talk calmly. Then there are times when things aren't so cordial. However, I still hold that at the end of SH2 after his James' final meeting with Mary, they reconcile their differences and leave. I believe Laura understands and even sees a change in James. Then they start a new life together as father and daughter.

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False. This directly conflicts with my points about Laura needing to learn the finality of death. Seeing Mary one last time would confuse her. Laura isn't an ordinary child, I'll give you that, but she's still a child.


So what about James? Why can he visit Mary? Doesn't HE need to realize the finality of what he did? It's a fallacy. You're looking at it from a real-world perspective, but ot Mary, it's more important to tend to Laura's emotional stability and happiness than to enforce a "real world value" that doesn't exist in the SH universe.

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Its pizza nonetheless. You said pizza, there's your pizza.


The point is that everything mildly pleasant is in Laura's presence.

Quote:
False. Laura is not held or "stuck" in Silent Hill. She can leave whenever she wants. She will, and she does.


I know, I just told you. I'm not saying she's metaphysically stuck, but mentally. She doesn't want to leave, so her mind will make reasons not to, from physical blocks to her own mental motivations, just like everyone else in SH2. NO ONE IS TRAPPED. Also, only the Leave ending guarantees that Laura leaves, and that's what we're discussing.

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Going on this logic, it also stands to reason she would understand the same thing coming from James. Therefore she is more likely to understand James' position, forgive him and leave with him.


Yea, but she hates James and isn't listening to him.

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It would be important except Mary never intended for these events to happen. In SH4, James' father mentions that James and his wife disappeared. Should she also appear to him and give him closure?


He obviously doesn't care about Mary in the same way that the other two do. Hell, Frank and James didn't even seem to be on very good terms.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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