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 Post subject: Claudia's system of the Order was brilliant...

When Dahlia fell and her cult fell, Claudia eventually grew up and rebuilt it.

Except she turned it into almost a form of catholocism, with them worshipped the mother of God, rather God.

The interesting tidbit is that Claudia and her followers all believed Alessa to BE God. That she was the very face of God. Mother of God, daughter of God. Pondering what it meant, I realized it's not so much related to Cheryl/Alessa/Heather as I thought, but more related to the idea that the God birthed won't look like the monsters of the first game, but will be Alessa.

Claudia and her followers all worshipped Alessa's image. Where Dahlia created Baphomet, they would create another Alessa.

She'd be a beautiful woman.

Where most ppl say the cycle is that Heather will always give birth to herself, the God, which will continue is not exactly true.

The truth is that Alessa, carrying the God, will give birth to a God that carries the worshipper's image, which is that of Alessa. Mother of God, Daughter of God.


I like that Claudia recognizes earthly beauty as the visage of a God. It makes her paradise a little more fathomable. Closer to modern religions on earth where the afterlife is constantly written in regards to earthly beauty and materialism.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Mar 2004
Notes left: 3526
Last seen at: Waco, Texas
:? .........rrrrright...........

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Value your failures more than your successes. Successes only last until someone screws them up. Failures are forever. She left...and...I'm lost.


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 Post subject:

Something you disagree with?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Mar 2004
Notes left: 3526
Last seen at: Waco, Texas
The "Baphomet" thing I disagree with....but everything else is cool....Not bad...not bad at all. :D

_________________
Value your failures more than your successes. Successes only last until someone screws them up. Failures are forever. She left...and...I'm lost.


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 Post subject:

Ohhh, hah.
Well, she obviously admired the image of Baphomet. I just use that name because visually, it's what Dahlia conjured from Alessa. It has no name, just "God"...but that gets confusing since "God" has so many different forms.

It's better than calling it Samael...hello 1998.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Aug 2003
Notes left: 4728
Last seen at: H-Town
How is it obvious that Dahlia admired the image of Baphomet?

If you somehow refer to the [bad] ending boss, then clearly that was just another one of Alessa's creations.

_________________
[ Un-Space Exploration - UE photo blog ]


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 27 Sep 2005
Notes left: 160
the winged demon referred by the lost memories as "Incubus" looks quite similar to "Baphomet" that's all.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Aug 2003
Notes left: 4728
Last seen at: H-Town
^ Which is a creation of Alessa's nightmare polluted mind.

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[ Un-Space Exploration - UE photo blog ]


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 17 Mar 2005
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boblecon1096 wrote:
the winged demon referred by the lost memories as "Incubus" looks quite similar to "Baphomet" that's all.


You mean the aeon/summon thing from Final Fantasy?

_________________
The first biological requisite
of the Higher Evolutionaries
is the realization that
natural evolution is complete.


Artificial evolution has begun.


The first psychological requisite
of the Higher Evolutionaries
is the realization that
they do not need gods.


For they are gods.



Legacy - Of the Higher Evolutionaries


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>You mean the aeon/summon thing from Final Fantasy?
No.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject:

Archaeis wrote:
boblecon1096 wrote:
the winged demon referred by the lost memories as "Incubus" looks quite similar to "Baphomet" that's all.


You mean the aeon/summon thing from Final Fantasy?


That would be Bahamut.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Claudia's system of the Order was brilliant...

Missing since: 12 May 2005
Notes left: 21
FrozenHalo wrote:
When Dahlia fell and her cult fell, Claudia eventually grew up and rebuilt it.

Except she turned it into almost a form of catholocism, with them worshipped the mother of God, rather God.

when did catholics start worshiping the mother of god rather than god himself? i didnt get the memo

_________________
ymmm.... "that was the tastiest rat i have ever eaten!" church door opens, "have you seen my daughter?"


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 08 May 2006
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Last seen at: Missouri
I think the catholics spend alittle too much time on Mary..but other then that I am pretty sure they worship God above all else.

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User Deactivated -- Underage.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 12 May 2005
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we only vernerate mary and consider her holy in the prensence of God

_________________
ymmm.... "that was the tastiest rat i have ever eaten!" church door opens, "have you seen my daughter?"


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 221
Quote:
Which is a creation of Alessa's nightmare polluted mind.


Exactly. I don't know where this idea that the Incubus is Dahlia's vision of God came from. The Incubus is a demon traditionally used to explain sleep paralysis (where the person is semi-conscious but their body is still immobilised, making it feel like something is sitting on their chest). It seems pretty obvious to me that this is the ultimate manifestation of Alessa's fear, because she is literally in the worst case of sleep paralysis ever- a never ending, waking nightmare, trapped in a completely immobile body.

Quote:
when did catholics start worshiping the mother of god rather than god himself? i didnt get the memo


If I understand correctly, he isn't saying that the God / Mother of God / Daughter of God is analogous to Mother of God / God in Christian religion. Rather, it's a parrallel to the Holy Trinity- God the Spirit / God the Father / God the Son. In which case I agree. I think it is fair to say that Claudia turned the cult from the apocalyptic vision of Dahlia into one based more on ascension and redemption, which is closer to modern Christian belief. If you need another analogy think of Dahlia's god being the equivalent of the Old Testament or Revelations God, all wrath and purging, whereas Claudia's is the equivalent of the God we see in the other New Testament texts, all confession and compassion.

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Live the nightmare conceived by Adam Crowley:
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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 30 Apr 2006
Notes left: 302
Last seen at: Is Florida considered the Dirty South or East Coast?
As a Catholic, I only speak for myself when I say this, it's kind of an honor thing. Being pregnant before her husband touched her was a harder burden than carrying the child of God. Society back then would see that as grounds for stoning. (Ok maybe that was just an exaggeration) Some people see her as, well to put it in laymans terms, "Hey Mary, I know God's busy, so when you get a chance, you know since he thinks highly of you, could you tell him that my family's a little down and out?"

To get back on topic, I get what Halo's saying-Claudia built back up a cult that was receding into nothing and became a well respected member and leader.

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There was a Dead RN here. It's alive now.
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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 23 Jun 2004
Notes left: 160
Last seen at: Anywhere but REDNECKVILLE, Texas. K'yuck.
The Baphomet does resemble Incubus alot. I don't really think that had anything to do with what Dahlia envisioned god looking like. I think what the god looked like was all Alessa's doing.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>I think what the god looked like was all Alessa's doing.
Well, you're wrong.

The Holy Woman in White is Alessa's vision of God. The Incubus is Dahlia's vision of God. Please consult Dahlia's secret altar behind the Green Lion Antiques shop.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 17 May 2006
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Last seen at: Hamilton,Scotland
St. Thomas wrote:
>The Holy Woman in White is Alessa's vision of God. The Incubus is Dahlia's vision of God. Please consult Dahlia's secret altar behind the Green Lion Antiques shop.


I totally agree.

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"A boats a boat but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat! You know how much we've wanted one of those!" Peter Griffin, Genius.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
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Quote:
Please consult Dahlia's secret altar behind the Green Lion Antiques shop.

What exactly is revealed there? I'm building up to take issue with you, once again.

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Live the nightmare conceived by Adam Crowley:
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