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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: A New Theory. Actually, A Few New Theories. (SPOILERS)
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Sep 2005
Notes left: 74
Last seen at: Room #303
Okay, this is going to cover both SH1 and SH3, but the discussion starts with SH1, so I don't know if this is the rigt place or not.I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but it occured to me that both Dahlia and Alessa's last names are Gilispie. Well, that's not the point.

The point is, I've heard theories saying that Kaufman is Dahlia's husband, which can't be true because of his last name. But who is? And why isn't he mentioned? I think that Alessa may not exist. At the end of SH1, we know that Alessa gave Harry Heather. But what happened to Alessa? If she died, wouldn't she haunt the realms of Silent Hill? And how was she born without a father? Could Dahlia have done something to make Alessa? Alessa did it to have Heather, so why couldn't Dahlia do it? And since Heather is really Alessa, the persona "Heather" doesn't really exist. So could it be that Dahlia is the persona "Alessa"?

The other theory is on Valtiel. Since Alessa possibly disappeared, do you think that Alessa could be Valtiel? Valtiel seems to appear beside references to Alessa, such as the mouth, which, in the mouth and ears thread in SH3, is said to be Alessa's, not Lisa's, as we had thought. Have you ever noticed that Alessa never shows in Heather? I think that Alessa, if not her, then at least part of her, stayed in Silent Hill. [Samael] found her, and forced her to serve her. Remember the Memory of Alessa boss fight? Everyone says rhat Valtiel was looking over Heather, but I think it was actually observing her. It was probably hoping to see her die, and since she didn't, it transofrmed into a dead version of Alessa to kill her. After it is defeated, every time you see it, it is doing something that could be interpreted as anger, such as crawling quickly across the floor, in defeat, or killing a nurse. Ad when it drags Heather off, it probably takes over her body so it can try to finish this itself.

Remember that everytime I say "it", I'm referring to Alessa, because this is just a theory, and even though people refer to Valtiel as a male, I think that Konami refers to it as an "it".

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 Post subject:

Firstly, get the names correctly: Gillespie. As to her father, it's likely not Kaufmann, given evidences throughout the two games, but the point is to stress that Alessa is a holy being, brought to life by Dahlia by herself--the obvious comparison here is Jesus Christ. Considering that, you can actually dismiss the importance of a father in the story of Alessa's life, even though by examining the cult's behavior with what's shown by SH4 and many related comments about it by the creators, she had indeedly a father. It can't be Kaufmann, as I've pointed out before simply due to the fact that he simply doesn't act as a father in relation to Alessa, plain and simple. Point being: there's no need to have any insight on who was her father, although she most likely had a father. There's nothing that points out that Dahlia could've done Alessa by herself, because if you follow that logic, then Dahlia is the Mother of God--which she isn't. She obviously had enough power and knowledge to channel within herself the seeds of God, but she couldn't do it by herself. Alessa was born with powers, but given the very final scene in Nowhere before Harry goes down the staircase, it's clear that when Alessa was seven, Dahlia has decided to impregnate her with the seeds of God, resulting in the ritual that basically made Alessa the mother of God--trapping her and burning her in the Gillespie's house. Alessa had the potential, as evidenced by the book "The Monster Lurks", but she was indeedly one of the many "experiments" conducted by the priests of the Order. Let's also remember that Dahlia was the head priest of The Sect of the Holy Woman, which in Joseph Schreiber's words in his diary, "believed in the resurrection of the god by impregnating a woman, who has concealed special powers, with the child god within her womb."
Therefore, the conclusion is that Alessa was impregnated with God--she didn't have it in herself until she was seven years old.

I'll go on with this later, I don't have time now--but that'll be fully addressed.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 26 Sep 2005
Notes left: 74
Last seen at: Room #303
Yeah, sorry about that, I forgot that spelling is the foundation of forum conversations, especially when everyone here knows who I'm talking about. :roll: What was the point of that? I've seen the name misspelled, and I wasn't sure how to spell it, not wanting to look it up.
So, you're saying that Kaufman doesn't act fatherly towards Alessa, huh? Well, Dahlia isn't exactly what I'd like to call "motherly". Besides, I already stated that he wasn't the father. That was how I began one of my two theories. Half of your post was simply stating what I had already said. Yes, half of your post.

Quote:
Firstly, get the names correctly: Gillespie. As to her father, it's likely not Kaufmann, given evidences throughout the two games, but the point is to stress that Alessa is a holy being, brought to life by Dahlia by herself--the obvious comparison here is Jesus Christ. Considering that, you can actually dismiss the importance of a father in the story of Alessa's life, even though by examining the cult's behavior with what's shown by SH4 and many related comments about it by the creators, she had indeedly a father. It can't be Kaufmann, as I've pointed out before simply due to the fact that he simply doesn't act as a father in relation to Alessa, plain and simple. Point being: there's no need to have any insight on who was her father, although she most likely had a father. There's nothing that points out that Dahlia could've done Alessa by herself, because if you follow that logic, then Dahlia is the Mother of God--which she isn't. She obviously had enough power and knowledge to channel within herself the seeds of God, but she couldn't do it by herself. Alessa was born with powers, but given the very final scene in Nowhere before Harry goes down the staircase, it's clear that when Alessa was seven, Dahlia has decided to impregnate her with the seeds of God, resulting in the ritual that basically made Alessa the mother of God--trapping her and burning her in the Gillespie's house.


I'll go on with this later, I don't have time now--but that'll be fully addressed.[/b]

And I'm not saying that Alessa is bad. But if that's what you think I'm saying, then you should remember that she tried to kill Heather, and even if it was out of good, she was still killing an innoccent. And to continue with what you saw as an useless theory, if Alessa didn't have a father, my theory of her not existing could be backed up.

Yes, I know that this looks and sounds very flammable, but remember that you bashed me with that Gilispie-----oh, I'm sorry, Gillespie, since you seem to have a need to put things that you corrected me in in bold print to get everyone's attention and prove that you're smarter and better than everyone here, mainly me-------comment, which was completely unnecessary.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
I think that Lenord Wolf might possible be Alessa's real father. Mostly because he is Claudia's father and he seems to be the only one deep enough in the religion of silent hill to want to raise the children the way Dahlia did. And as for the last name bit, you don't have to get married to a person just to get pregnant.twice.

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 Post subject:

Firstly, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to act as a superior and more enlightened person than you--it's just an habit that I, and many others have, to say the names in the right way. I'm really sorry about that; it was no condescendence on my part, mind you. Just a small correction for the sake of it. No hard feelings, okay?


Now, on with the discussion: where exactly did I state that Alessa was bad? I don't see it anywhere. Secondly, read my post again: I did say that Alessa had a father, but that it didn't matter given her story. You'll obviously ask me why, and to that I can simply say that she was begat with the purposes of the cult foreshadowing her creation--point being: it could be anyone, therefore making the father's role useless other than giving a daughter to Dahlia. As for Kaufmann's supposed fatherhood, it wasn't half the post as you've said but rather one sentence. Yes, one sentence. Read it over again and you'll see it; you must've misinterpreted me on that, for what I've said for a third of my post was that 1)She had a father, 2)It wasn't Kaufmann, and 3)It didn't matter who he was.

Now, Dahlia definitely did act motherly enough for Alessa, as opposed to what you've said. Proof: once again, the flashback seen by Harry before going down the staircase on Nowhere: if Dahlia wasn't at the very least caring for her child, despite being abusive, why would Alessa plead to her that she was the one she just wanted to be with? That shows that Alessa had affection for her mother, to a certain extent. There's your answer.

Lastly, she can't be Valtiel, simply because Valtiel is Xuchilbara. One out of the two angels on the pantheon of gods in the Order. You've actually answered yourself by pointing out his actions (i.e, dragging Heather's body to bring it back to life--his other actions are simply a display of his role as a carekeeper of the otherworld, and as evidenced in SH2 and 4, as a punisher).

There you go. Once again, I'm sorry if I sounded condescendent with the names deal, and I must say that you didn't really read my post with enough attention, since once again, I used one single sentence to say that Kaufmann wasn't her father, and I've spent a third of it simply getting things straight that she did have a father but it didn't matter who he was.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
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First, I need a lot of replaying. So sorry if this is fragmented.

I don't think Alessa is Valtiel, personally.
If I stick with my theory on the Mouth, Ears and Stretched Figure and connect it slightly with what you've said here and on my thread, it can reinforce mine...

But I completely, totally forgot my train of thought on that so hopefully I remember it in the next few days. Excuse me.
Umm

But next thing, it's been said from Konami that Valtiel is the "valet of God" I believe.
Either how, cause it's not the most exciting thing to go "Oh it's cause they said so, so yeah"
I think that if Valtiel was just aiming for killing Heather, it (as in valtiel) would be a redundant element in the game/story because there are already the other creatures attacking her and such.


And with the spelling error, really, it's not the point of course but I don't think F had that overlord "Man you're retarded" tone at all. It's totally hard to decipher Internet text to someone talking but it was only one sentence on the spelling error; we don't need to be so touch-sensitive I think. :) It wasn't the point of his post.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 26 Sep 2005
Notes left: 74
Last seen at: Room #303
Right, no hard feelings, sorry about that. And about that half post thing, it depends on the way you look at it. From what I, myself, saw, ihalf of it was centered around that one thing. But whatever.
So Valtiel is Mr.X, huh?
But about Alessa only wanting to be with Dahlia, I think that she was just attached to her, Dahlia being her only parent and her not having anything else to hold on to. Well, I have more to say, but will have to come back to it.

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She had Claudia as a best friend--somebody who treated her a lot better than the abusive ways of Dahlia, so she had at least one more person to "hang on to". Yet, all she wanted is to be with her mommy. I rest my case.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
Notes left: 772
Last seen at: On The Internet
Yeah there really is no proof that Kaufmann is or isnt alessa's father. the fact that he doesnt "act fatherly" means nothing. Alessa was only created to bring about the resurrection of the God.

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 Post subject:

I've also to agree that Alessa isn't Valtiel/Xuchilbara because of a certain reason that I'm too tired to discuss.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
biomechanical wrote:
Alessa was only created to bring about the resurrection of the God.

This isn't correct. Dahlia only realized that she could use Alessa to birth god much later. You see a flashback of that instance before going into Nowhere. Dahlia's initial intention was to make Alessa follow in her footsteps as the priestess of the Order.


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Burning Man I'm agreeing that Alessa was not created by Dahlia to birth the God per se, but may I ask in what part did Dahlia want her daughter to follow in her footsteps?


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
Dahlia was raising Alessa to become a Priestess of the Order.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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ok, didn't see anything of that sort.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
Ulver09 wrote:
Burning Man I'm agreeing that Alessa was not created by Dahlia to birth the God per se, but may I ask in what part did Dahlia want her daughter to follow in her footsteps?

It's a reasonable request, but unfortunately, I can't share a link to copyrighted material. 'Seems like a rule on this board.


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That's very queer (not in the homosexual way) One of the most important things for a theory is to show proof. Something a bit impossible to do when all links to copyrighted material are blocked.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 26 May 2005
Notes left: 205
Last seen at: Fort Worth, Texas
Ulver09 wrote:
That's very queer (not in the homosexual way) One of the most important things for a theory is to show proof. Something a bit impossible to do when all links to copyrighted material are blocked.


I completely agree.

I always knew we aren't supposed to post copyrighted material, but I never quite understood why. Other unofficial video game forums use official images in their layouts and allow users to post links to official web content. *confused*

A little off-topic, I know. Sorry.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Sep 2004
Notes left: 264
Last seen at: Belgium
I think that Alessa was a normal girl who happened to be born with psychic powers, and the cult had been waiting for someone like her to come along. Once they had the one with the qualities they were looking for according to their texts, they completed a ritual to impregnate her.

I mean, dude, this is mostly a lot of cult-religion mumbo-jumbo anyway. That's kinda the point. I don't see why Alessa had to have a 'father' at all--and considering the situation and themes, I think it far more likely that she wouldn't have had one. For Kauf or any other person to perform artificial insemination or anything else to simply put egg and sperm together as usual is just too... normal. Doesn't it make more 'sense', in a way, if the pregnancy was a product of the cult's rituals rather than mere biology?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
[ m a r i a ] wrote:
Ulver09 wrote:
That's very queer (not in the homosexual way) One of the most important things for a theory is to show proof. Something a bit impossible to do when all links to copyrighted material are blocked.


I completely agree.

I always knew we aren't supposed to post copyrighted material, but I never quite understood why. Other unofficial video game forums use official images in their layouts and allow users to post links to official web content. *confused*

A little off-topic, I know. Sorry.


I know this is like, months and months old, but I think Burning Man was talking about a video in the game? I might be wrong but uh, the final scene in Nowhere may have something to do with that. And there's ways for other people to find them online either through videos or gamescripts...

I agree with Wynne. I always thought Alessa's birth was some cult related thing, not a matter of science. Plus I can't see anyone doing such a thing with Dahlia. Unless, uh, drugs were involved. But now I'm just getting silly.

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haha, Dahlia isn't nearly as ugly as everyone makes her out to be...I think its the fact she has no shoes and a haggardy voice...

Imagine if she woulda had Claudia's voice...she'd be much less disgusting.

Also, Dahlia was like 14 years younger when she woulda did the deed to create Alessa. Even though the game reuses the polygons and old lady voice actor for the flashbacks, I can imagine her being much less....old...14 years ago.


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