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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: The Catacomb (spoilers)

Missing since: 12 Feb 2006
Notes left: 143
Last seen at: Devon
Hey has anyone been to the underground graveyard, underneath the big prison, where it has the graves of Angela, Eddie and James, but Also Walter Sullivan. Man that place creeped me out. does anyone know if thats an actual graveyard or a hallucination or summin? and who is Miriam .k - Traitor?[/spoiler]

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
It's presence is only there to imply that anyone whose grave is there has also been through the Abyss, and jumped through their own open grave. By the time James gets there, Angela's & Eddie's have aleady jumped through--so the hole beneath has been filled. Walter Sullivan has already jumped through & completed his journey--so the grave has been filled entirely.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject: Re: The Catacomb (spoilers)

Spudrush wrote:
Hey has anyone been to the underground graveyard, underneath the big prison, where it has the graves of Angela, Eddie and James, but Also Walter Sullivan. Man that place creeped me out. does anyone know if thats an actual graveyard or a hallucination or summin? and who is Miriam .k - Traitor?[/spoiler]


No, none of us have played Silent Hill 2.

......

What Adversary said is the jist of the whole thing....
Interesting to note there are alot of graves down there. Seems like alot of poeple through history have "met" their fates in Silent Hill.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Feb 2006
Notes left: 143
Last seen at: Devon
yeh its looking that way...

_________________
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy.


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 Post subject:

I like how Walter Sullivan was a character in the background of Silent Hill 2 meant to sort of guide you down the right storyline to finding out what is going on. He is the precursor to our character's events...in Silent Hill 4 he evolves into his own character, and ends up with a very complicated story.

I consider Pyramid Head James' split. Walter had his split too. I feel Pyramid Head looked that way only to James, but wouldn't if anyone else could see him. This is still the reason I think Walter's dark half didn't look anything like Walter to himself, but looked more like Valtiel mixed with PH mixed with Jimmy Stone's invoked image. I don't believe "The Red Devil!" is in reference to Stone at all, why wouldn't he just call him by name?


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 Post subject:

Quote:
why wouldn't he just call him by name?

To dehumanize him.


We see the opposite of this in SH3 when we talk to, and then are first introduced to Leonard.


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 Post subject:

I don't buy that.

"The Red Devil!" is not Jimmy Stone. Nothing can make me believe that.
He was referring to his dark half, the one empowered by mental-Valtiel, who was manipulating his actions against his will and morals. That being appeared to him as a monstrous form unlike Walter himself, and it proclaimed to be the Devil. That's what I believe, and no one can make me think otherwise.

It's the same as James and Pyramid Head. Pyramid Head is Joseph as far as I'm concerned. PH is the side of James who was mean and apathetic towards Mary, he is the personality that arose from the trauma that had the strength to kill her. It has no morals, no thoughts, and no personal ambition. It only exists to mame and kill anything it considers a distraction. James is struggling between feeling like the killer, and feeling like the victim....It's James vs Joseph, or James vs. Pyramid Head. One or the other will win, and in the end, James does win. Mary acknowledges that he is not a heartless killer and it's true. He isn't.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
"Nothing can make me believe that."

Except that's Jimmy Stone's name, and it's sure as hell one coincidence that Walter would give his bad side the same name as a man who was responsible for fucking his life up.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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 Post subject:

So through his trials and convictions, Walter would never mention Jimmy Stone's name?

The Red Devil is Jimmy's nickname, but the Red Devil Walter saw was his own dark half. It's form projected something that Walter could only describe or percieve as The Red Devil, an image Jimmy invoked and had frightened Walter with all through his childhood.

I do NOT believe he is blaming Jimmy for the killings because there is no reason to. Jimmy was a victim, he never killed any of Walter's victims. It doesn't even make any sense.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 27 Oct 2003
Notes left: 1227
Last seen at: Everywhere {UK}
Jimmy Stone was nicknamed the red devil, but i belive that the 'Red Devil' Walter saw was not Jimmy Stone.

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Time is a skill, thats why you have to make the best moments last. Allow me to start by kicking you in the throat while masterbating to the sound of your own extinction.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Yes it does, actually. Jimmy was the one responsible to make Walter do all those things. Walter physically did them, but who put Valtiel inside of Walter's head? He used Walter for the cult's purposes, and when Walter became aware of it he wasn't exactly keen on the subject. Hence, killing him.

It can go either way. It makes sense for Walter to be blaming Jimmy, as well as blaming himself. It depends on what a person wants to think and since you so clearly stated you're not going to think otherwise, I'm only providing a defense for the other idea. It does make sense.

_________________
I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
Well, yes, the Red Devil is the nickname for Jimmy Stone, but the Red Devil that Walter Sullivan is blaming is Valtiel, in essence.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject:

Yeah, he's not blaming Jimmy Stone, he's blaming the other half of himself that is the nesting for Valtiel and his power...

Which is the same thing Pyramid Head is, for James, I theorized.


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 Post subject:

Why would Jasper Gein be in search of Jimmy Stone?


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
What does that have to do with anything?

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Jasper never said he's looking for the red devil. "I finally met him! The one the nosy guy talked about! The devil!" He meant Walter. Confusing, eh?

_________________
I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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 Post subject:

1. They were possibly introduced to Jimmy Stone, a very theatric cult leader, and the head of something they have a youthful but destructive interest in.
2. They met Walter's split personality/Valtiel projection?


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
The Devil that Jasper refers to, like Krist. said, is Walter Sullivan. The Red Devil that members of The Order refer to, is Jimmy Stone. They are two entirely different people.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 27 Oct 2003
Notes left: 1227
Last seen at: Everywhere {UK}
the Adversary wrote:
The Devil that Jasper refers to, like Krist. said, is Walter Sullivan. The Red Devil that members of The Order refer to, is Jimmy Stone. They are two entirely different people.
I dont think so myself. If Jasper has a T-shirt of the Sh1 samael/devil/incubus, and has a thing for wanting to meet the devil of Silent Hill, I would belive that Jasper met incubus, maybe the same way one of the other victims met God. Nobody knows for certain what Jasper saw.

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Image
Time is a skill, thats why you have to make the best moments last. Allow me to start by kicking you in the throat while masterbating to the sound of your own extinction.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
I finally met him. The Devil. Right as he's dying from Walter. If the Incubus killed Jasper--the design of Dahlia's envisionment of God; a Sect that was completely re-organized after her death--he wouldn't be saying him, in reference to a person.

Secondly, The nosy guy, Joseph, was the one to've told Jasper about The Devil. Joseph Schreiber was researching Walter Sullivan, not God.

The t-shirt is a novelty item. It's irrelevant.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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