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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1464
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
Whoever makes the next Silent Hill game, if there ever will be one - I just have one thing to say.

Enough with the "inner demons" stuff. That being said, stop looking at SH2 for comparison every god damn time you decide to make a SH game. And moreover, you as a fan should also stop requesting game developers to make a game like SH2.

Because guss what, that's exactly the problem with the SH games made by western developers - they tried to copy SH2 because that's the game many fans keep bitching about. So the thing that made SH2 stand out was that the player character is mentally unstable with a troubled past, whose horrible truth is revealed towards the end of the game (oh god, James is the killer!). Which other SH game made by Team Silent has this kind of player character? None. Which other SH game made by western developers tried to create this kind of player character? Well, let's see - Travis in Origins (abused by parents), Alex in Homecoming (killed his brother), Cheryl in SHSM (mentally insane), Murphy in Downpour (killer again!). Basically, western developers always tries to make something similar to SH2 because that's what they think the fans want. But in reality, fans don't always know what they want. They think they know what they want based on personal experience, but those experiences can be deceptive.

Truth is, many of the western developers are fans of SH2 themselves, so it makes sense that they were trying to copy its themes. The sad thing is that in their minds, they think that a person has to be mentally unstable or have a very troubled past in order to be pulled to Silent Hill, which is WRONG. Anyone can be pulled to Silent Hill given the right conditions. Most of the time it's just bad luck or coincidence. Harry Mason was pulled to Silent Hill because he adopted the "wrong" daughter. Heather was brought back to Silent Hill because it was meant to be, as a direct continuation of SH1. Henry was being pulled into Walter's world because he moved into Room 302. You see, they're all just accidents. That's not to say a mentally unstable person who needs to have their sins purified can't be pulled to Silent Hill to face their inner demons as well - I'm just saying that's not the exclusive reason why people are being pulled to Silent Hill.

So please, stop milking the shit out of SH2 over and over again. Yes, SH2 was amazing but that's not the only SH game out there. Instead, look at SH1 or SH4 for inspiration - or why not come up with something entirely original? Is that too much to ask for? Why does every SH character have to be a freak like James?

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Aug 2014
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True, though Murphy from Downpour kind of subverted the trope. I don't think it's as much an issue of inner turmoil as it is of guilt. Not every protagonist has to be guilty and punished for a major sin. Harry was in the wrong place at the wrong time, though I'd imagine the loss of his wife affected him in some way. Heather likely had a decent life, though there seemed to be some signs of inner turmoil. However, unlike James, Harry, Heather/Cheryl and Henry were not guilt ridden for some kind of crime.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1464
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
If you're dealing with very serious acts of guilt, it really doesn't matter if you're innocent or not. The fact that you think you're guilty is enough to create inner turmoil. That was Murphy's thing.

The issue is obviously that all games post-Room wanted to have a protagonist that was dealing with either guilt or inner demons. "Punishment for sins" so to speak, a character trope that was introduced with James.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Harry, Heather and Henry were quite "normal". I mean, losing your wife is one thing. Killing your wife? That's something else entirely.

Funny, I never noticed until now that Harry, Heather and Henry all start with "H" while James seems to be the missing link in the Team Silent era. :P

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
So what you're saying is that we need more protagonists with H-names.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1464
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
AuraTwilight wrote:
So what you're saying is that we need more protagonists with H-names.

100 % yes.

Hayden, Harold, Hugo, Hector, Harvey, Hugh, Hank, Howard, Helen, Hannah, Hillary, Harriet, Helga, Holly, Haley. Just pick one.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Nov 2010
Notes left: 990
Last seen at: Kentucky
Henrietta!
But I agree with OP.
I do think there were some neat ideas with Murphy and Downpour, especially with the implementation of Anne and all of that. But yeah, you could tell that SH2 was still the template, the jumping off point for conceptualization, wherein afterwards they tried to be unique and differentiate their game and story.
That needs to happen from step one.
That’s what made SH games originally so great. They seemed so refreshing.

It’s far from my favorite, but in relation to this topic, that’s what makes SH4 so tantalizing! At least its concept.

And I’m not trying to completely shut down newer SH titles. I mean, SHSM is my second favorite SH. It did a lot of unique things... still though, using that SH2 template. But maybe it worked a lot better for SM than the other post-Team Silent releases?


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1520
Last seen at: Colombia
SH - The Order Stuff with a bit of inner demons (Alessa's). Harry is a loving and brave father.
SH2 - Inner demons with a bit of The Order Stuff. James is a nice but dumb husband with a weak mind who blocked a recent freak out in his mind.
SH3 - The Order Stuff with a bit of inner demons (Heather's). Heather is a brave and sassy girl.
SH4 - A mix of Order Stuff and inner demons. Henry is a quiet but caring guy.

SH0 - It was supposed to be Order Stuff but ended being inner demons. Travis is a lonely trucker with repressed memories from childhood trauma.
SHH - Order Stuff and inner demons, it was dissapointing in both aspects. Alex is a resented (insane?) man with repressed (childhood?) memories.
SHSM - Inner demons. Cheryl is a traumatized girl in self denial.
SHD - Not really inner demons since Murphy never blocked his memories, it was more about letting things go (Murphy's guilt and depression and Cunningham's revenge and anger)

Am I the only one who thinks that Rule of Rose should be a Silent Hill game?


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1464
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
It's also about amnesia, or to be precise the sort of amnesia that arises because of psychological trauma. James suffered from amnesia in the sense that he tried to forget what he did. Lying to himself made him mentally unstable.

Travis doesn't remember being abused - he suffers from amnesia.
Alex doesn't remember that his brother died - he suffers from amnesia.
Cheryl doesn't remember that her father died - she suffers from amnesia.
Murphy doesn't remember who killed who - he suffers from amnesia.

Neither Harry, Heather nor Henry suffers from amnesia. Only James. The problem with almost every Western developers is that they are too obsessed with the Western trope of amnesia in the horror genre.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1520
Last seen at: Colombia
i dont think Cheryl had amnesia, she is in denial; she knows that Harry is dead but she never was able to move on


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1520
Last seen at: Colombia
i dont think Cheryl had amnesia, she is in denial; she knows that Harry is dead but she never was able to move on


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
Notes left: 1464
Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
KageReneko wrote:
i dont think Cheryl had amnesia, she is in denial; she knows that Harry is dead but she never was able to move on

Or selective amnesia. It really doesn't matter, since it's played out in a way eerie similar to amnesia. That's the trope used. Think "Shutter Island".

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1520
Last seen at: Colombia
Well, they had to play like this in order to keep the player in the dark... But when you play the game and see the decisions that Cheryl has made in her life is pretty obvious that she never blocked the death of Harry, she was delusional about who he was and she created a perfect image of him while despising everything else...

Anyway, I have been replaying the Epic Mickey games, those good have good Silent Hill vibes and some areas in Wasteland really put last otherwolds in shame...


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Enough with the SH2 "inner demons" stuff
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Nov 2016
Notes left: 115
Last seen at: The Lakeview Hotel
Jonipoon wrote:
KageReneko wrote:
i dont think Cheryl had amnesia, she is in denial; she knows that Harry is dead but she never was able to move on

Or selective amnesia. It really doesn't matter, since it's played out in a way eerie similar to amnesia. That's the trope used. Think "Shutter Island".


I think Cheryl did have amnesia to a point similar to how James repressed his thoughts of Mary in favor for Maria. Cheryl wanted to forget certain things in order to 'create' a better past for what she imagined Harry. She replaced her thoughts much like how James either imagines Mary being alive before being snapped to the truth. Quite similar, if you ask me.

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