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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Silent Hill 4 suicide
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2004
Notes left: 313
Alright, i found a topic a while back on ShF talking about how walter commited suicide, of course i read it and replied to it. then someone PMed me and said that it would make since if jasper had commited suicide.

the idea behind this was that if you were one of the 21, you were marked (so to speak) and all you had to do was die. of course your not going to just go off and kill yourself or die anytime soon (fatel accidents, ect) so walter had to kill you. but maybe jasper killed himself, the only question i have toward this was why he killed himself...

I did think jasper was a little crazy (way he talks, his moevements, ect), but maybe something compelled him to do himself in...
these were the two more interesting things that made me actually consider jasper killing himself.

1-where was walter when you entered the room?
2-he is set on fire. humans arent entirely flamable (excpet clothing) but it still would have been hard to do it. walter couldnt have done it unless he was throwing gas all over jasper (and im sure we would have heard jasper screaming)


Its just a thought, made a decent bit of sence to me...

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
We did hear Jasper screaming. And how does this theory explain what Jasper says before he crumples--"I finally met him, the one the nosy guy talked about. The devil!" Surely that means that Walter was there, that the two of them saw each other.

It's quite possible that you never see Walter do the deed because your back is turned and Henry is occupied elsewhere, and besides: somebody had to close that door, just like somebody had to carve those numbers into Jasper's body. If Jasper killed himself, that kind of makes it difficult for him to be able to manifest himself later on as a spirit. I'm of the belief that Walter's needed to kill each Victim to enable their spirits to remain in his Kingdom and to stay under his control: how else to explain why they hang around? Carving the numbers into their bodies and killing them are part of the ritual.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2004
Notes left: 313
wait, he saw the devil... if he already saw walter then he would probably have said he saw the nosey man... and you heard him screaming after he was set on fire, thats pretty much emplied.

I dont know about you, but if was in a screwed up place like that forest, i think i would still remina alert enought to notice someone trying to creep through a doorway behind me, even if i was reading. If walter was already there, then where did he go?
and like i said they are 'marked' (cant really put it another way) maybe thats just something that happens when they die. remember? one of those victims was shot, and yet there was the numbers carved on him. differnt murder weapons or marking?

like i said, it was just a thought, and alot of people coudlnt prove him wrong.

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Goodbye Silent HIll!
(Please Mr. Admin, banish me)


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Walter is not the nosy man. Joseph Schreiber is--Walter is by no means nosy, he's the devil that Jasper is talking about.

Maybe that's something that happens when they die? .. Or maybe Walter actually carves it into them. I don't think they would just show up on the body, and even if they did that still implies that Walter had to seek out that particular person and brand them in some metaphysical way: so Jasper would still have to have some, albeit brief, contact with Walter.

I don't question what a sneaky bastard like Walter does or how he gets around--I kinda just accept it (and haul ass whenever he's around, that fucker).

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2004
Notes left: 313
hmm, i think i can prove that wrong. jospeh was a head of the cult guy known as 'the red devil or dragon' something along those lines. and if i am thinking right (i dont remember for sure) jospeh is never brought up in SH4. If i could get back to teh SHF i could just pull the link and let you read this guys postings, becouse alot of people bashed him for it, but he managed to prove himself right.

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Goodbye Silent HIll!
(Please Mr. Admin, banish me)


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
I think you might be confusing names.. Joseph Schreiber is not the head of the cult, nor is he part of it. He was the tenant who lived previously in Henry's apartment, who researched the cult and was one of Walter's victims (15th, I think). Coincidentally, the man you are thinking of, Jimmy Stone aka The Red Devil, is a part of Silent Hill 4 as well: he was Walter's first victim.

Either way, Jasper can't be talking about Jimmy Stone because he didn't say RED Devil, he said the Devil. Makes sense to be Walter because he offed Jasper's friends, and was a notorious serial killer. Jasper seemed to be interested in that.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
Last seen at: #lfk
Jasper Gein is Walter's sixteenth victim. Jimmy Stone was Walter's first. The Red Devil has long been dead.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2004
Notes left: 313
wow, wait. your right. God what am i thinking.
there was some guy in teh cold called the red devil. i dont think he wo9uld have to imply red on the red devil. devil would get the point accross to me. but your right, he is one of walters victims. which makes me wonder if stone (as a victim and into a ghost) attacked jasper.
i honeslty dont know. if i wasnt banned from SHF i would go find that link and let you read it for yourself.

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Goodbye Silent HIll!
(Please Mr. Admin, banish me)


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 221
Isn't it the case that we actually see Jasper carving the numbers into himself with the sharp end of a candle-holder? I remember this because I found it particularly gruesome. We never actually see adult Walter at any of the murder scenes, so maybe it isn't as simple as him walking into the room and killing them. Perhaps he is able to gain some mental control over his victims which compells them to do the act upon themselves, against their own will. As such it may not even be a physical encounter as such. Jasper said he saw the Devil, but it's possible this occured in some psychological sense, appearing in his mind and compelling him.

I should state that this clearly isn't the case with the first ten victims, which he does kill in a straightforward matter, but as we know, after killing himself he has a great degree of mysterious power.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
A sharp end? Where did you see that? To me it seemed his hands were writhing, not that he was deliberately carving anything.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
Last seen at: #lfk
It appears as though Jasper is carving the numbers into his chest--with the pointed end of the chalice, dear--but, considering the numbers are already present on Jasper's body when Henry walks in, it's an impossibility; Jasper is merely tracing 17/21 on his chest.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 26 Jan 2004
Notes left: 2232
Last seen at: In the tattered recesses of your very mind
Unless you meant Jasper as an individual case, it's unlikely that the victims are somehow forced to kill/injure themselves. If I recall correctly, Eileen's numbers were carved on her back, which would be difficult to do on your own

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 Post subject:

I guess I really need to play this game again. All the details you guys are citing I've totally forgotten....


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2005
Notes left: 1696
Last seen at: Калинингра́д, Россия
Artemis Panthar wrote:
Unless you meant Jasper as an individual case, it's unlikely that the victims are somehow forced to kill/injure themselves. If I recall correctly, Eileen's numbers were carved on her back, which would be difficult to do on your own


Yeah, I liked that, actually. It was pretty neat.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2004
Notes left: 313
alright, then maybe his ghost killed jasper, he saw the devil. and ghosts can go through walls, that might explain why he wasnt there when you g in teh room. Jasper did say teh devil and he knows about the cult, so he would know who the devil was.
Quote:
Jasper Gein is Walter's sixteenth victim. Jimmy Stone was Walter's first. The Red Devil has long been dead.

_________________
Goodbye Silent HIll!
(Please Mr. Admin, banish me)


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
Last seen at: #lfk
>then maybe his ghost killed jasper
Walter's ghost, yes. The same ghost that killed Peter Wolls, Sharon Blake, Toby Archibold, Cynthia, Andrew & Richard.

Jimmy Stone had nothing to do with any of their deaths.

>he would know who the devil was.
Had it been Jimmy Stone, Jasper would've said the Red Devil, not simply the Devil--a term he had always used to describe Walter Sullivan.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject:

I don't believe the victims were forced to kill themselves.

I do however believe that the deaths are not as simple as they were presented in the game.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19398
Last seen at: #lfk
Contrary to Joseph's diary, they were killed out of order.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2005
Notes left: 1696
Last seen at: Калинингра́д, Россия
About ten years ago...
"Hey, the devil is your friend? He will come here soon? Asked bobby. Then, the gentle student replied, "No, he is not my friend. Don't hide there. Come up here, guys"
After hearing his calling, Sein showed up from the corner and walked out to join them.

But Jasper could not join them because somehow he was scared and his legs were shaking.
"C'mon, don't you want to meet the devil?" To Jasper, the man's gentle voice sounded like a devil calling him.

And suddenly, he heard Bobby's scream, and then Sein's voice screaming "Help me!!" echoing all over the place.
"Hey, still hiding there? Come on up, buddy...You came here to see me, Jasper!" said the man.

Jasper was so scared that he started to run away from him.
He stopped running in front of a drug store in town, thinking it was okay since he made it this far. He turned back, but the scary devil was gone...

After the incident, Bobby and Sein were missing for a while.


...I hope that helps.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2004
Notes left: 313
no one said they had to be forced to kill themsleves,

no one evr said Walter had to kill anyone, it was just that they died

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Goodbye Silent HIll!
(Please Mr. Admin, banish me)


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