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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Balance.
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11057
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I gave this some thought in a post I didn't finish, as I was going to go off on an inappropriate tangent. That's what this thread is for.

I've never been one that has been very sold on the legitimacy of the Rebirth ending, and it's my personal belief that Leave is the best, but regardless, there are three main endings, Maria, Leave, and In-Water.

We all know the role Maria plays in the story. It's rather overt and obvious. But many people seem confused as to what Laura's role is. Is Laura real? I can't say for sure, but I think she is. She's looking for Mary. She's a young child with no family and no sin. She's cavorting around town and not seeing any of the supernatural shit James and friends are seeing.

Now, with Maria, we know a lot. We got her entire life's story via Born From A Wish. We know she sees the monsters, can harm them and can be harmed by them. We know she's a facsimilie of Mary, specially-designed to be alluring and attractive, to be everything James might think he wished Mary was. We know she's deceptive and manipulative. We know that if James falls for her charms and does a good job protecting her, he will spurn Mary in favor of Maria and leave to presumably start a new life with her, one that seems destined to end quickly and tragically.

What about Laura though?

Well, it is my theory that Laura is the antithesis of Maria... possibly a direct counterweight. Laura is looking for the real Mary. Laura is someone who Mary cared very deeply for during her final months. If James really wants to find Mary again and eventually settle his conscience, he must do as Laura does, and keep her at the forefront of his thoughts (which the letter and photo help us to do). He is forced to let Maria tag along, but in this instance, he doesn't allow her to sink in the bitch-hooks. He keeps his distance, speaks to her only when necessary, and, in-general, keeps their time together to a minimum. He doesn't know what she is or what she's really doing, but he does seem to realize her manipulative tendencies, mood-swings, and strange behavior, and decides not to allow it to distract him unduly. He keeps fit and healthy because he must for his goals to be met. He is driven by his desire to see his wife again, as is Laura. Once he does, in the end, he finds his forgiveness and a reason to go on, which he does, with Laura following close behind, perhaps to start a new life with her, one that is uncertain but holds endless possibilities.

The endings, to me, seem diametrically opposed. Either way, he leaves with someone. The results of the endings are very different and require almost completely different methods.

And, in the middle of it all is Water, and Water feels to me like James doesn't really know what he expects or what he wants. Perhaps he doesn't find the closure he thought he wanted, or his guilt wouldn't allow him to enjoy it. He has enough conviction to refuse Maria (or too much indifference to care), he has enough conviction to weather the storm and find Mary, but not enough to live with the consequences. Nevertheless, he leaves anyway... right into the Lake, with Mary.

So, what I'm trying to say is imagine a seesaw. In the middle is In Water. On one end is Maria and on the other is Laura. If Maria or Laura either prove to be a greater influence on James' actions, either Maria or Leave will be the result. If neither of them prove to be a greater influence, or perhaps more accurately, if neither of their goals are shared by James, he ends up in the middle, driving off a cliff to his death. Maria's ending has Maria as a very obvious figure, and almost anyone can realize that. Not many people seem to afford Laura that same kind of importance though, thinking of her as either totally pointless or of no greater value to James than perhaps voicing his conscience. I believe she is the polar opposite of Maria, an equal but opposite force pulling James away from where Maria leads, and towards the happiest of the three endings. She's a major player in the story.

If one wishes Rebirth to be considered legitimate, it would ruin my seesaw analogy. :D However, I would consider it a counter to Water... one in which he does not share either Laura's or Maria's pull reaches the end disappointed, but with enough desperate hope to try something really fucking crazy. Water and Rebirth show James at his most extreme moments, one with him devastated enough to kill himself, and one so hopelessly desperate that even killing himself won't do, he has to actually bring her back to life. But that's not important to my point, which is to address Laura's true significance as a counterweight to Maria. Believe what you will about Rebirth.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19439
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Quaquaversal endings.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 03 Mar 2005
Notes left: 67
Last seen at: Gothenburg
This all makes very much sense. It might make me look at Laura in another way.

But what about the Dog Ending :P
j/k

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Goddamnit woman, stop sending me these letters!


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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 12250
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Thankfully I don't view Rebirth as the true ending.

I've said it before and I'll say it until some damn convincing evidence proves me wrong: SH2 is filled with suicidal images/symbols, and is also filled with water.

All signs point to In Water.

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"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19439
Last seen at: #lfk
>All signs point to In Water.
Evidently not, otherwise I'd believe you.

>and is also filled with water.
It's also full of Exit signs, does that make Leave ending true?

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 12250
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Buildings have Exit signs. Not exactly out of place.

It's how out of place the water is, and how explicitly it reappears that makes it seem significant to me.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19439
Last seen at: #lfk
When is water out of place? A flooded basement from a burnt-down hotel makes perfect sense to me. Water dripping from abandoned buildings makes sense to me as well.

It also seems unusual to me to have various articles representing rebirth all over the place, including items that involve a particular ritual. So, by that logic: Rebirth is correct.

Or the appearance of butterflies & moths. Therefore: Maria ending is true.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 12250
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
I suppose. However, by that logic, there are images that relate to ALL the endings in the game. Therefore, perhaps no one ending is the true ending.

So much of SH is about interpretation.

I will mention one other thing, though, in regards to the water: James has to travel through water repeatedly in his quest to find Mary: not just the puddles in Blue Creek, but the Labyrinth water, the boat trip across Toluca.

Coupled with his repeated run-ins with Angela and his weak, unsure "I would never kill myself", I still feel like suicide is being shoved in your face the whole game.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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 Post subject:

What if all the endings are correct? Hear me out on this, first of all it's been said that no matter which ending you get James wouldn't go back home. So right there we really shouldn't use the SH4 quote as a factor of any the endings.

To me the endings represent how the player wants James to feel about Mary, and himself. If one goes for the In Water ending they have to take alot of damage, examine Angela's knife constantly, look at Mary's picture, listen to the whole conversation in the hallway in order for James to go careening into the lake with Mary's body in the trunk.

If one wants the Maria ending then they must have James wait hand and foot on Maria, follow Maria, stay with Maria, protect Maria, become so obsessed with Maria that Mary pretty much becomes an afterthought. In fact this is the only normal ending in which James doesn't ask for Mary's forgiveness after killing Marya. The reason for this is because James has just finished killing the Mary demon. Him and Maria leave with Maria coughing, and James telling her she should get that cough checked out.

If one wants the Leave ending to be true, then they have to act as Laura does. Search for Mary with the quest to live through this. They have to put Maria as an afterthough, talking to her and protecting her only when necessary. When the Maria demon is killed James meets Mary in what I can only say is a celestial area, in which James is asking for Mary's forgiveness for his sin towards her. When he gets the letter, he leaves Silent Hill with Laura following him.

Those are the normal endings, these are three also where automatically the player decides what motive James will have. Examples

In Water - James is depressed over the death of his wife, and suicidal. He shows this by constantly getting injured, rarely taking his medications to heal himself, placing Maria as an afterthought, looking at everything that reminds him of Mary.

Maria - James is befuddled at the idea of Mary sending him a letter from Silent Hill. He drives to the town, keeping his health in check. When he meets Maria he becomes so obsessed with the idea that she's Mary that he waits on her hand and foot. When he finds out he killed his wife, it doesn't matter much, because he has another Mary right there, why should he feel guilty for killing the sick Mary.

Leave - James is hurt over the death of his wife, but wants answers to why he's being summoned to the town. He places Mary first and foremost in his mind, does not worship Maria, and follows Laura's example. When he finds out the truth about what he did, he comes to terms with what he did. Mary forgives him, and he forgives himself, he leaves.

Then we have the hidden endings, but since I have never played the greatest hits version I'll stick with the rebirth ending and the dog ending. In order to get either of these endings it requires James to go through Silent Hill again and again. In both of the endings James has collect items, even for the dog ending, James must have gotten the rebirth ending.

Unlike the normal endings the motivation and emotions that the players give James has no effect on the hidden endings. As long as James has the four or one necessary item for the endings, he will get them no matter what. All that is required to get these endings is to have James aquire certain items. If one wishes to make James so obsessed with Mary that he wants her back, have him collect the items for the rebirth. If the player wants does not wish to see James, Maria, and Angela dying all they have to do is pick up a dog key, and open an observation room, activating the dog ending. A joke ending to most, but to some it's the ending where everyone (except Eddy) is being forgiven.

Ultimately it's up to the player to decide which ending will be the true one.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
I got the leave ending first but I thought that it couldn't be true because someone would go looking for James after his wifes dissaperence,esspecially her docters for the payment of her medical bills.So I figured even if the leave ending was the "real" ending,James would get caught pretty quickly then it would be of to jail for him.

That is my crazy logic.^

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Last edited by Harrys_Girl on 21 Nov 2005, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:

It all depends on how you want James to act towards the death of his wife.


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2005
Notes left: 1696
Last seen at: Калинингра́д, Россия
I remember reading an interview when Silent Hill 2 came out.
It said something to the effect of:
"This is a game that can analyze your psyche, the outcome is up to you."

Sounds silly as hell, but there's some truth to that.
The first three times I played SH2, I got the In Water ending. I had no knowledge on how to obtain anything in that game. That's just how I played.

As always, to each his own.


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 16 Nov 2005
Notes left: 1748
Last seen at: Southeast of Greenwich...somewhere sandy.
Quote:
"This is a game that can analyze your psyche, the outcome is up to you."

You may be right robbie. I recieved the Maria ending thrice when I first played
SH2 and had to look up how to obtain the others.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
Notes left: 847
Last seen at: alchemilia
James may not get caught, it is possible for the dr.s to believe that she killed herself. People are at risk for suicide when they have a disease like she did.

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Life changes daily so go with it!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
I'm pretty sure that an autopsy can prove the difference between suicide and death by pillow, thus the jig would be up.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Aug 2006
Notes left: 1775
Last seen at: Rhode Island
That's a good point Alone, really sums it all up (given those endings). I believe that any ending cool be legit, it is SH after all.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11387
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I have to agree with Alone 100%. That's pretty much how I always saw things, but he elaborated it in such an awesome way I think I had a religious experience.

Screw the Rebirth Ending.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 26 Oct 2007
Notes left: 80
Last seen at: walking with strangers
I never thought that the Rebirth Ending could be a 'true' ending for SH2. I played the game, and got different endings every time. I did get the sense that suicide was everywhere in SH2, and the In-Water ending just seems to fit with it, in my head anyways.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
Notes left: 847
Last seen at: alchemilia
I like the leave ending. Laura needed someone and she found what could possibly be a loving father!

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Life changes daily so go with it!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11387
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I love the Leave Ending. It's one of the few Happy Endings the series has, and I want to believe James and Laura are rewarded for the crap they go through.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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