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 Post subject: A theory on the "terrible mine fire" and aging

Some of this is in response to the "MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!" thread, but that thing has gotten completely out of control, and this really doesn't relate that much to the ending. Also, please keep in mind these theories may not be directly tied to the storyline of the games. I think we can agree they are two different animals.

So, I think the fact that they didn't find the bodies of the cultists is a clue from the writers. I remembered Rose telling the cultists in the confrontation in the church that "You all died in the fire" referencing (I thought) the burning of Alessa that went awry and killed the cultists. So maybe...

** If you subscribe to the otherworld theory, there were no bodies to be found from the fire because the cultists didn't die, they were swept to the fog silent hill. This also explains why no bodies were found for Rose and Cybil because (obviously) they never died - they just crossed over to fog silent hill.

** If you believe the purgatory/hell theory, and believe everyone in fog silent hill is dead already, it fills in the gaps for the plot hole of police not finding Rose and Cybil's bodies after they crashed and transitioned to fog silent hill (purgatory). After the cultists and rose/cybil died, their souls *and bodies* were taken to fog silent hill.

Now, the main problem I have with all of this is that -- GET READY -- when the cultists died/transitioned in the sacrifice fire of Alessa, no fog/dark silent hill existed, right? Alessa's silent hill hell was only created after the burning, wasn't it? It’s hard to believe that her demonic world was created in the few minutes during the burning. I figured it was afterwards, in the hospital where she bargained with the devil in her anguish and wrath.

So this presents a problem; if Alessa's hell was created after the burning, how did the cultists get there? If they died in the sacrifice fire, she would have had to pull their souls from wherever they had passed to (heaven/hell/who cares).

Now - what if they didn’t die in the fire? Maybe the cultists escaped the burning church and Alessa was left alone when Gucci and the police found her and rescued her. They brought her to the hospital, and after a few days of writhing in her pain and hatred - BOOM! Alessa's hell was created in a huge fire that sucked the townspeople into her hell. One by one, she was able to exact her judgment on all of those who were cruel to her: the school children, the janitor, even the innocent nurses who took care of her.

The only problem, she still cannot touch the cultists whose faith somehow protects them - even in her new domain. So, she creates Sharon to bring a medium (Rose) through which she can infiltrate and destroy the cultists.

So obviously, we know officer Gucci is lying to Chris. What he calls "a terrible mine fire", was actually the creation of dark silent hill, known as the "apocalypse" to the cultists (which they - for a while - did in fact survive). This is the perfect cover up, as Silent Hill was a supposed mining town. But, I think he does know the truth, because he was there. The raining ash is a symbol of the great apocalypse fire, and is there to remind those in fog silent hill that this world is hers and was her doing.

So NEW QUESTIONS:

1) It does seem that in Alessa's silent hill, you do not age. Is this because those that are in fog silent hill are already dead? Or does Alessa control all elements and time is not important to her?

2) Why has Dhalia aged? Maybe she left the town in guilt after she handed her daughter over, and was not present during Alessa's apocalypse. Therefore she was not pulled into Alessa's nightmare. This would mean that she either died at a later age, or was sucked into fog silent hill years later (maybe recently). Regardless, Alessa chose her to be a part of fog silent hill at a later time. Or, maybe you do age in silent hill, but the cultists' faith/protection is keeping them from aging?

3) Was Gucci sucked into the fog silent hill world, but released by Alessa because he saved her after the burning?

4) Why hasn't Gucci aged in the normal world? Did Alessa bestow some power to him as a gift because of her rescue? Or maybe he was recently allowed to leave fog silent hill, and has only now started to age in the real world.

I think all of these things were done on purpose to lead us to some conclusions. I just don’t know what they are. Thoughts?


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 11 Mar 2006
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Last seen at: Toluca Lake
Alessa has aged in her physical being. You can see this by the burns on her at the end of the movie, as if the skin has healed significantly over a period of time. Her face looks a bit older as well.

As far as Gucci, I think he would be about 50ish in the real world; therefore making him about 20 or so in the flashback, hence why he was in uniform as a regular cop andnot promoted to a detective or lieutenant yet. I think that was what they tried to do.

Dahlia aged obviously worse, but that has a lot to do with the lifestyle she lives. If you were a nomad like her you would probably look pretty rancid after a couple decades. She is about 30ish in the flashback.

Also in the flashback you can tell that Christobella is supposed to be far younger as well. Her face seems younger and her hair is a bit shorter.

As far as aging in the movie, I think it goes along pretty normally. Except for the demon of course; but one of the advantages of being a demon is being able to manipulate these things.

I think it's confusing to a lot of people b/c the same actors/actresses were used in the flashback so it's kinda hard to notice progression.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 23 Apr 2006
Notes left: 64
Last seen at: England
I'm gonna have to dissagree on the whole 'there wasn't a mine fire'. It seems to me that somehow the fire got started and thats why the town was evacuated. Gucci goes into detail about the evacuations, adn he was very insistant that Chris wear a mask- he wouldn't be so insistant if it were all a cover up.

I'm thinking the mine fire was somehow started by Alyssa as soon as she made the deal with the devil, which was some time after the witch-burning.

And time has to move in the fog world, not just because Alyssa has aged, but look at Anna. She mentioned that everything happened in the time of her elders. I would take that to mean her parents. If you assume her to be about 20-30, that puts her born either just before or AFTER the cataclysm. So she must have aged.


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 Post subject:

Snowcone wrote:
As far as aging in the movie, I think it goes along pretty normally. Except for the demon of course; but one of the advantages of being a demon is being able to manipulate these things.


I guess I buy that. Maybe the aging inconsistencies everyone has brought up are irrelevant to the story. Maybe they just didn’t do a good job at making Gucci look older, and maybe Dhalia just looks older than everyone else because she is a crazy hermit and has to fend for herself.

Taige wrote:
I'm gonna have to dissagree on the whole 'there wasn't a mine fire'. It seems to me that somehow the fire got started and thats why the town was evacuated. Gucci goes into detail about the evacuations, adn he was very insistant that Chris wear a mask- he wouldn't be so insistant if it were all a cover up.


OK - maybe there was a mine fire then. I didn't recall the evacuation details. I think my point was that Alessa caused the "mine fire"/destruction of the town. If that is the case, did the "mine fire" create or transform the town into fog/gray silent hill. If it didn’t what actually pulled the cult members into Alessa’s world? Is the mine fire and creation of fog/dark silent hill the apocalypse that the cult refers to?


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 Apr 2006
Notes left: 57
It felt like Gucci was insistent that Chris wear the mask so he wouldnt realize that the air was not polluted. When Chris takes off the mask he doesnt cough or give any indication that a mask is needed.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 23 Apr 2006
Notes left: 64
Last seen at: England
I once saw a show on the Centralia town. Apparently the only signs there was a fire below the streets was that the ground was warm to the touch and the air smelled slightly.

Several times in the movie we are given views into the 'pit' and there is fire at the bottom. It could be that Ayssa caused the mine fire somehow. I don't know how but maybe. We know that the demon girl can escape the fogworld into the real world, so maybe she did something.

It could be that somehow the fires from the sacrifice spread beyond control and somehow got into the mines? Then everything is explained! The film does make a point about the cultists crafting their own hell, condemning themselves.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 17 Feb 2005
Notes left: 32
I think what is possible, is an awesome prequel. I would LOVE to see a prequel to this. Kind of like, Alessa's story, what the town was doing, and what the cult was doing. That would make this movie a lot more clearer.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 23 Apr 2006
Notes left: 24
Okay -- first of all -- I think this is the best direct address to the film that I have ever seen. Great job. Well done.

Second of all -- those who claim that the aging did in fact occur are WRONG. I mean... 30 friggin years!! Christobella and Gucci did NOT age -- this is CLEAR. This is where we, as psycho-obsessed fans ask WHY??

Dahlia did in fact age because she is a clear exception to Alessa's hell. She does not get attacked, she does not get punished, she does not get touched. "Mother is God in the eys of a child."

Why didn't Gucci age? HE IS PROTECTING ALESSA'S HELL. He is a part of it. That is why he wants Christopher to GO THE HELL AWAY!!

What do you all think of my theory?

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 Post subject:

Isn't Alessa's bed hundreds of feet under the earth (that's where Rose finds her anyway)? Anyway as for what started the fire it's the fire from the Hotel. Remember Rose finds a room with a big hole in it and at the bottom there is fire. That indicates that the fire that burned Alessa somehow kept going downward through the floors and into the ground, reaching the coal veins as well.

Also aging does occur except for the cult members. They are protected by their god so they can kill the demon. The police officer says himself his father used to have a barber shop there, so we can guess that he died after the mine burning, then the police officer kept on living and eventually became detective.

Daliah also obviously ages as well (at least her air grow).


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 Post subject:

LinzerDinzer wrote:
Why didn't Gucci age? HE IS PROTECTING ALESSA'S HELL. He is a part of it. That is why he wants Christopher to GO THE HELL AWAY!!


I really like this idea and want to believe it, because it would draw a parallel between Pyramid Head and Gucci's "relationship" with Alessa! But, what the heck does Alessa need protection from? In fact, by the end of the movie... [spoiler]she is spreading her hell to places other than silent hill.[/spoiler] I mean, did you see her? She has frikkin barbed wire tentacles! Whatever Gucci is there for though, I am pretty sure there is something else to it that the audience doesn't know about (cue Silent Hill sequel).

Phil_Osirus wrote:
Isn't Alessa's bed hundreds of feet under the earth (that's where Rose finds her anyway)? Anyway as for what started the fire it's the fire from the Hotel. Remember Rose finds a room with a big hole in it and at the bottom there is fire. That indicates that the fire that burned Alessa somehow kept going downward through the floors and into the ground, reaching the coal veins as well.


Yeah - I guess that is a possibility. But I like to think that Alessa or the demon (what have you), after their pact actually caused the fire to spread or start. Otherwise, it is just a kind of coincidence that the mine fire/town destruction and the creation of Alessa's hell happened around the same time. I like to think that because of Alessa's new power, she actually caused the fire and town destruction, killed/trapped the townspeople because of it, and delivered them to her new realm. I like to think they are all the same incident... the "apocalypse" referenced by the cultists.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
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The cult members are all dead.

They are all trapped in their own self-made limbo of the church.

In their minds, they are safe inside from the outside world.

Their blind faith means that they are in denial that they are dead, and they are in denial that they did anything wrong.

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 Post subject:

Biomechanical wrote:
Their blind faith means that they are in denial that they are dead, and they are in denial that they did anything wrong.


I think this would make sense because the dark/demon Alessa told Rose that she wanted her to tell them "the truth".

If you subscribe to the death theory, this makes complete sense. Wake them up so that they realize what has happened and that they are in fact dead. If they realize they are dead, their faith in the cult will not have a foundation, because obviously, they were in fact killed in the "Apocalypse"/Mine fire event. If they have no faith, there is no protection for them in this "purgatory" realm, and Alessa can then bring them to her hell.

If you believe everyone is still alive in the fog silent hill realm, then what is this "truth" that dark alessa wants them to confront? Maybe that she was innocent and that Christabella has misled them all and they are in fact the sinners?


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 23 Apr 2006
Notes left: 64
Last seen at: England
gideon wrote:
Biomechanical wrote:
Their blind faith means that they are in denial that they are dead, and they are in denial that they did anything wrong.


I think this would make sense because the dark/demon Alessa told Rose that she wanted her to tell them "the truth".

If you subscribe to the death theory, this makes complete sense. Wake them up so that they realize what has happened and that they are in fact dead. If they realize they are dead, their faith in the cult will not have a foundation, because obviously, they were in fact killed in the "Apocalypse"/Mine fire event. If they have no faith, there is no protection for them in this "purgatory" realm, and Alessa can then bring them to her hell.

If you believe everyone is still alive in the fog silent hill realm, then what is this "truth" that dark alessa wants them to confront? Maybe that she was innocent and that Christabella has misled them all and they are in fact the sinners?


The matter of the truth is very important. What is the truth Alessa wants the cultists to see? That they are dead or that they have sinned? Or both?

I think that they are not dead, but in another plane of existence. This accounts for the perfume, the open door at then end, and the telephone calls. Dead people get no cell phone service in hell. This could be explained by poultergeist activity, but I think that's a longshot.


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 Post subject:

All of the cultists died in the mine fire that was created, whether it's by Alessa or by Alessa's "cleansing". Remember that Gucci said that most of the townspeople were evacuated but some of them died, and remember how he said that those who died had it coming. Of course, he's alluding to Alessa's death.

Most of the cultists that we see there, including Christobella, didn't know that they were dead. I actually thought that Dahlia was rather young looking, just looked rather skanky. But then, if you've been under a constant snowfall of ash for nearly 30 years, you'd be in dire need of a shower as well. That's why her hair is grey and matted. And her voice is husky but not "old". Again, an onset of black lung will do that to ya.

I think Gucci's lack of aging was a good old fashioned plot hole. But then, with some hair dye and a shave (and lot of exercise :P), I'd look much like I did 15 years ago. I'll chalk that up to either a plot hole or Gucci just takes really good care of himself. Honestly, I didn't notice it, but I'll probably notice it during future viewings.

I don't think Alessa is spreading - it's just how Rose and Sharon view the world. In getting her daughter back, she ended up unknowingly making a deal with Alessa's demon. Yes, she gets Sharon back, but they're both trapped in limbo. When dealing with demons, nothing is free. :P

So I believe the foggy Silent Hill is limbo, where all the cultists trapped themselves. The dark fiery Silent Hill is Hell (duh), and where Det. Gucci and Chris search for Rose and Sharon is the real world.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 27 Mar 2006
Notes left: 477
what about lisa she was about 20 in the flash back and still looks the same shes obviously not a monster and she remained in the otherworld

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 Post subject:

Lisa looked like she waz just dead inside like in her own personal hell, walking back and forth acting like shes taking care of Alessa(which she is isnt).


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 Post subject:

I think it went like this:

Alessa is burnt, the whole thing is stopped an she is rescued like is shown. The guy is 20 something when he rescues her, you can tell by the dark hair.

Alessa is put in a hospital and it is normal, over time her pain turned to hatred (from the demon narative) then after time, she could hurt others with her hatred (red nurse). The the demon (I am thinking it is satan/the devil more now) comes and makes the deal. Did you not notice the room turned into a hellfire? Her DEAL starts the fires!!

SO, she makes the deal, and the fires start. Some are burned, but the purgatory Silent Hill is made and over half are sucked into it (from narative in the movie). Then after that the real world Silent Hill is just a horrilbe hull of a town with fires still going under it, thus a health hazard; while the purgatory Silent Hill is existing as it own entity fluxuating with Alessa's dreams.

On Alessa's mother, why would Alessa torture her? You see in the end, not a scratch on her. Now about her age: who said she aged? Her hair is matted, her skin is dirty but a hobo/homeless person can look really old if you notice. Dirt and grime does that. Time in Silent Hill? Passes slowly I guess or not at all. It IS Alessa's dream/nightmare. Let the cultists never age so their torment never ends. Then again on this thinking, let her mother age and be left alone in this. I am just throwing two possibilities on Alessa's mother.

Really it isn't to hard to understand after you sit down with it.


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 Post subject:

Taige wrote:
Dead people get no cell phone service in hell.


Not necessarily. Mary was able to call to James in SH2 on the radio. Her voice was intermittent with the static... just like Rose's was to Chris. And there is no doubt Mary was dead. Also, I think AT&T services there.

Plus, there are many beliefs in ghost/poltergeist theory that the dead can manipulate the real world (the haunting fragrance, the static/white noise, the door opening). I would think that those that are trapped in the Purgatory/Fog realm can affect the realm beneath it. Dark/hell realm effects Fog/Purgatory realm, Fog/Purgatory realm effects real world.

But wait... what the HELL!? If the real world and fog realm are two different dimensions or two celestial planes, why does Rose opening the door in the fog realm also physically open the door in the real world? I know that each realm can "affect" the one below it right? But it’s not like it’s the same door, right? I mean, when Chris and Gucci were examining the real world silent hill and Cybil and Rose were running around in the Fog/Hell realm, he could sense them, but it’s not like the physical doors and stuff were opening and closing in front of Chris and Gucci, right?

Hmmmm... I wish I could watch it again now, because I am wondering if it was Alessa that opened the door to their home at the end. I think maybe those that are trapped in the Fog realm can have some effect on the real world, but I wouldn't think that they could physically open doors.

Now if it was dark Alessa that opened the door, that would make sense, because I figure Alessa can directly manipulate the realms beneath her (I.E. appearing in the real world to cause Rose and Sharon to crash at the beginning, dropping Sharon off at the real world orphanage). I am almost positive that Sharon no longer exists. I don't think they merged - I think dark Alessa entered Sharon, and there no longer is a "Sharon".

Or maybe I am reading too much into this...

Maybe the sequel would have Chris freaking out because all the doors and appliances in his house are being used. :D


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 Post subject:

When Rose ran through her husband, then he turned around the that door was moving. ;) The fog/hell Silent Hill is one place it is just fluxuates withs Alessa' dreams. The world in which this happens is very close to the real Silent Hill.


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 Post subject:

Also dont forget Chris was able to smell Rose's perfume at the school and "feel" her. Theyre husband and wife and maybe their bond is strong.


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