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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: The sign with the hands

Missing since: 12 Mar 2005
Notes left: 215
Last seen at: Glendale, Arizona
Some one made a topic or post earlier about the fact that the devil horns type of hand gesture was used in the movie. I noticed this. Before Rose got pushed into the elevator by Cybil, christabella did that hand gesture to Rose cause " her daughters likeness of Alessa" and that like naturally commanded her right hand men to start trying to beat cybil down, now outside the church when the darkness is coming to, Dahlia does that gesture to Anna right before Pyramid Head materialised behind her, almost as if Dahlia knew Pyramid Head would show up at that spot in a few seconds and commanded him to do that to her. Both Dahlia and Anna were out there when the darkness was coming and Dahlia does that to Anna and Anna is the one that gets " the treatment " , lol. But then again I just thought of this. The darkness comes from Alessa's mind, and Dahlia is Alessa's mother. Maybe Dahlia knew the darkness came from her daughters mind, and maybe did command his to do that.

I mean from the first time Rose met Dahlia in the street until she was captured by Christabella and brought in the church she had no marks on her showing signs that anything bad happened to her and she didn't look distraght and/or tired like she's been running or trying to avoid the darkness like Rose did. All the cultists and Anna were minding their own lives until the sirens would go off then they'd be in the church to take cover so nothing bad happened to them, and Cybil was able to stay out of trouble like Rose did, and then when they met up again they tried to avoid these things together. I'm currently watching, and think I realised my own answer, before Rose walks out of the church with sharon, Dahlia asks why Alessa didn't take her with the other people she barbed wired up at the end, and Rose answers, " Mother is god in the eyes of a child ", so now it might be my beleif or thought thought because Dahlia was Alessa's mother and always tried to help her out as a kid especially with the cover up of who the father was, Dahlia was immune to the darkness, either that or Alessa didn't let the darkness hurt her mom.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
It's general consensus from what I've seen that Alessa created Pyramid Head to protect Dahlia, and Dahlia figured out what Pyramid Head was doing after a while, since Anna obviously wasn't the only person to attack her over a period of 31 years.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 221
There's currently a discussion going at the moment called 'An Interesting Subtext' where I introduced the fact that the hand gesture is a tradition sign of warding agains the evil eye. Feel free to join and share your thoughts.

The fact that it is a warding gesture, meant to divert someone's ill will, doesn't stack up with the idea that Dahlia somehow summons Pyramid Head by doing it. We see Anna make the same gesture against Dahlia earlier, and Christabella does it at numerous points and to numerous individuals.

This is the way I see the scene proceeding:
- Anna moves threateningly toward Dahlia.
- Dahlia reacts to this ill will with the sign against the evil eye, a defensive gesture.
- Alessa senses Dahlia's mental distress at being threatened with harm.
- Alessa manifests Pyramid Head behind Anna in order to save her mother.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2003
Notes left: 28
Last seen at: Upstate NY
The Necronoir wrote:
There's currently a discussion going at the moment called 'An Interesting Subtext' where I introduced the fact that the hand gesture is a tradition sign of warding agains the evil eye. Feel free to join and share your thoughts.

The fact that it is a warding gesture, meant to divert someone's ill will, doesn't stack up with the idea that Dahlia somehow summons Pyramid Head by doing it. We see Anna make the same gesture against Dahlia earlier, and Christabella does it at numerous points and to numerous individuals.

This is the way I see the scene proceeding:
- Anna moves threateningly toward Dahlia.
- Dahlia reacts to this ill will with the sign against the evil eye, a defensive gesture.
- Alessa senses Dahlia's mental distress at being threatened with harm.
- Alessa manifests Pyramid Head behind Anna in order to save her mother.



That certainly makes perfect sense, but I don't believe there's any evidence against Dahlia's possible ability to control certain aspects of the darkness, namely PH. I mean, either way, it's obvious that Alessa is protecting her mother, but it's possible that Dahlia, being of the blood of Alessa, is able to manipulate the darkness in smaller degrees. Perhaps her mutual hatred towards the cult for their sins enables this. I just don't think Dahlia was as helpless as she appeared to be. Perhaps the future sequel will shed more light on it.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 08 Mar 2006
Notes left: 138
Last seen at: Surrey, England
Does Dahlia actually "summon" Pyramid Head, or does she just point to where he's appearing behind Anna? Does she definitely make the "hand gesture"?

I don't remember! OH WELL...suppose I'll JUST have to watch the film AGAIN...tsk... Any excuse... ;)


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
That certainly makes perfect sense, but I don't believe there's any evidence against Dahlia's possible ability to control certain aspects of the darkness, namely PH. I mean, either way, it's obvious that Alessa is protecting her mother, but it's possible that Dahlia, being of the blood of Alessa, is able to manipulate the darkness in smaller degrees. Perhaps her mutual hatred towards the cult for their sins enables this. I just don't think Dahlia was as helpless as she appeared to be. Perhaps the future sequel will shed more light on it.


That would require that magic powers was a genetic trait that could be passed backwards, and by that logic Sharon could've saved herself without Alessa's help.

Quote:
Does Dahlia actually "summon" Pyramid Head, or does she just point to where he's appearing behind Anna? Does she definitely make the "hand gesture"?


She makes the hand gesture, but Dahlia is clearly shocked by Pyramid Head's appearance. I think Alessa is protecting her mother solely because of "Mother is God in the eyes of a child."

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 12 Mar 2005
Notes left: 215
Last seen at: Glendale, Arizona
I just thought there was a connection. Oh and sorry I didn't ass this to NecroNoir warding off topic, but that is why I added this.

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Only the Dark One opens and closes the door to Silent Hill.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Sep 2006
Notes left: 90
Last seen at: Alchemilla Hospital
there is rumors now that pyramid head is representing alessa's father, the man dahlia has slept with. alessa is obviously controlling the darkness, but dahlia seems unharmed from the creatures as well. she may be protected under alessa since the qoute states she is alessa's god for being her mother, but at the end- dahlia asks rose why alessa had spared her. dahlia thought alessa hated her for giving up on her and put the guilt in her head. since dahlia was a castout anyway wouldn't that give her some power at all, and even though she might not have directly summoned pyramid head, she, in a sense, wished it upon anna.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Apr 2006
Notes left: 826
Last seen at: the place of broken dreams and mirrors
It looked to me like she just pointed and that she was clearly able to influence the materialization of Pyramid Head directly behind Anna. She didn't appear shocked to me at all, as we see her point at Anna, then it cuts to PH forming behind her and we see Dahlia no more in that scene. Judging by recollection of events the dark one runs by Rose near the end, Alessa knew her mother loved her and was deluded into thinking the cult would do only good. Also that she appreciated what seeing her burned body had done to her mother, and knew that she was now 'broken'. After going through that, Dahlia hardly needed to suffer further, and I think Alessa agreed. They were both victims of the cult in that way.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2006
Notes left: 193
i think Dahlia was just doing a mock gesture of the others towards Anna cause she wanted to anger her further to get her to throw the rock. Dahlia is obviously no longer part of the order and talks against them whenever she can. It was just luck pyramid head shows up.... or since they're in Alessa's world she wanted to get pyramid head to help her, i'm sure she see's everything that goes on in her own world.
If Dahlia did have any control, why did she think she was going to die with the others at the end?

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2006
Notes left: 48
Last seen at: North Carolina, USA
Put Dahlia in a Pantera shirt while she throws up the hand gesture. Seems a bit more appropriate.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Apr 2006
Notes left: 826
Last seen at: the place of broken dreams and mirrors
She was barking mad AND felt guilty. She probably felt overwhelming remorse for suckering into the cult's plans to burn Alessa and was convinced that she deserved to die.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2006
Notes left: 369
Last seen at: England, UK
Since Alessa is controller of the alternate Silent Hill, it would have made sense for Alessa to free her mother. To me this suggests 2 things: Dahlia is stuck in Silent Hill due to her own feeling of deep rooted guilt, and inability to relinquish her daughter. Hense, Alessa didn't intend for Dahlia to become trapped, but instead she holds herself there. Or, she hasn't forgiven Dahlia at all, and keeping her alive, alone and suffering in Silent Hill is the superior punishment to being murdered.

I've always liked to keep to idea that Alessa was indeed protecting her mother, and loved her. And I do believe this, I just can't understand why Dahlia was still stuck there. Unless of course her misguided decision to give Alessa to Christabella counts as a damning sin.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Sep 2006
Notes left: 90
Last seen at: Alchemilla Hospital
but sharon and rose stayed in the fog-filled world, and they did not belong to the cult, in fact rose helped helped alessa exact her revenge. so if dahlia is being punished, then why too is rose and sharon?

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Apr 2006
Notes left: 826
Last seen at: the place of broken dreams and mirrors
Either they died in the crash, Sharon merged with Dark Alessa, Rose became a monster by killing things and collaborating with Dark Alessa, or they needed a plot device for the intro to the sequel.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Or maybe Alessa just didn't want to go to the big bad hurtful world where people will burn and rape her and where she doesn't have omnipotence to have her dream come true and keep the people she loves immortal, safe, forever young, and potentially happy by giving them whatever they want.

Just a thooooought.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 12 Mar 2005
Notes left: 215
Last seen at: Glendale, Arizona
Dahlia wondered why alessa didn't take her, and rose points out because of the whole love thing, but because dahlia felt guilty for giving her up during the past viewing it was probably her guilt and sin still personally on her that kept her there. And the mom and daughter are stuck there because they got into car crash. That's about it from me.

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Only the Dark One opens and closes the door to Silent Hill.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2006
Notes left: 369
Last seen at: England, UK
Rose and Sharon are stuck in the foggy world because of Rose's pact to help Alessa slaughter the church-folk. She's damned by her decision to help 'evil' essentially. Sharon is trapped because she has again rejoined with Alessa. It's probable that Alessa is keeping them there so that it'll be just the two of them, like she probably wanted with her own mother, or Alessa too is damned.

At least these are my thoughts.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Sep 2006
Notes left: 90
Last seen at: Alchemilla Hospital
Oooooooh, that makes a lot more sense. The most confusing part to me was the fact that they couldn't leave the Purgatory, but that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 12 Mar 2005
Notes left: 215
Last seen at: Glendale, Arizona
That's not too bad. That does make alot of sense. Although one thing to point out is they may be stuck in the foggy realm cause they made a pact but technically because they did also get into that car crash, cause if they didn't they would be roaming around Silent Hill like the dad and the cop did, in regular time. But what you said seems very logical.

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Only the Dark One opens and closes the door to Silent Hill.


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