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 Post subject: Ernest's connection to Silent Hill and James

Ernest Baldwin somehow knows who James is. It is assumed that he is a ghost haunting his old house, but what is his connection to James? When you die in Silent Hill, do you become a part of it (especially if you are involved with the cult's teachings, since he has the Book of Lost Memories)? Is there sort of plane of existence that they are both on for what has happened to them, but since he is dead, does he somehow know about others?
He also knows that Maria was created from a wish, as seen when he says, "Maybe I too can wish for a miracle" or something along those lines. Does this plane of existence they share have a theme of resurrection with the dead? But that wouldn't work for Eddie (yet he may be a different plane of existence that James also shifts into at times, possibly for his irrational violent side).
I'm getting a little muddled and off topic...I just want to know and understand Ernest more.

(There's also something I keep hearing about Ernest being the director of Brookhaven...is there truth behind this or is it just someone's theory?)


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Ernest Baldwin somehow knows who James is.
For a long while I believed that Ernest was Mary's doctor while she was at Brookhaven Hospital for those five, long days.

>I keep hearing about Ernest being the director of Brookhaven
I wrote it after Born From A Wish was released: http://www.geocities.com/th765/hole2.jpg

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Just Passing Through
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Instead of Ernest beeing a ghost, couldn't it be a bit different?
Brookhaven seems to be a mental hospital. The director, who we think was Ernest, had a very close connection to his patients. His letters assumed that he was sucked into their world - that he began to see the same things as the "so called" insane. But those insane didn't turn to an alternate Silent Hill or the abyss completly. They just were somehow trapped between both worlds. Otherwise they most likely would have disappered from Brookhaven.
I see Ernest more as a person who is able to have a peek into "the otherworld".
Now of course, I assumed this, there's no real evidence for it.
The point I don't get is, why Ernest should be dead?
IF he wrote those letters, which were most likely spread through the town only hours before James arrived, then my theory is, that he isn't dead at all. (of course, there doesn't have to be a border between the world of dead/the world of the living in Silent Hill, so with the help of the town it wouldn't be any problem for the dead Ernest to create the letters and the wrench .. but I wanna look on that topic a bit different)
He knew where his patient burried the key and he knew from the abyss. So he left the wrench, because he knew that James would need it.
The case is: Ernest was in Silent Hill all the time, but not in the "otherside", but in the normal, inhabited Silent Hill. Not visible for James. And not visible for Maria.
He was able to "look" into Marias Silent Hill due to his connection to Mary. He gave her the hints and guided her to realize everything and to meet James.
I can't bring any bold facts here, and it's as I said, just a theory ..
Another thing that makes my theory week is, that Ernest wanted Maria to bring him the "white liquid". Why didn't he go himself? Well ... it could be that those white chrism only existed in the otherworld. And by Maria getting the item for him he would be able to 'somehow' transport it from the otherworld to the "normal" Silent Hill. As I said, that point really indicates, that Ernest is indeed dead and makes my theory week (weeker, the weekest).
Maybe it's not even a theory. Just a thought. One of the chaotic sort, I assume.
Butcher it, if you want.

until then,
Pray

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If Ernest isn't deceased, and not a ghost at all, as your suggesting, then his home, the Baldwin Mansion, wouldn't be abandoned & neglected. If you'll notice in the home, there's a thin layer of dust over all of the furniture, and, most notably: KEEP OUT OF HAUNTED MANSION. Painted on the outer wall of the attic.

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Just Passing Through
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I didn't notice a dust layer. The mansion always seemed too inhabited for me, to be a ghost house. But I completly forgot about the 'graffiti' ..
Well, since Ernest's little girl is haunting the attic, it could also refer to her, not to Ernest.
I also remember a theory by you, which is about Mary beeing killed only some days before the events of SH2. Sounds very plausible to me. But if Ernest was her doctor and took care of her the days in Brookhaven, then he died only some days before James arrived with Mary in town, or am I wrong?

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>The mansion always seemed too inhabited for me, to be a ghost house.
Well, I can't imagine anyone spray-painting on the outer wall if it had only been vacant for a few days; I'd think it'd have to be much longer that that--months to years even.

>since Ernest's little girl is haunting the attic, it could also refer to her, not to Ernest.
It's not referring to either of them, just that the place is abandoned.

Which leads me to my next point: Mary died the day (or two) before the events of Silent Hill 2. Had Ernest been her doctor at Brookhaven, he would've had to've died on the same day--and that seems highly suspicious, coincidental, and unlikely to me. This is why I noted that I had written that thing up there, at the top, years ago--long before I had become as familiar with the game as I am now; thus also why I mentioned believing Ernest was Mary's doctor years ago. No longer.

It's a possibility Ernest died very recently, but seeing the state of that house, I'd think otherwise. I'll have to consult the script for Ernest's dialogue again, but I know that Amy Baldwin died ten years prior, in November--the month her calendar is still at; her room remains as it was left--but it doesn't specifically indicate when he passed away, unfortunately.

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Last edited by The Adversary on 14 Dec 2005, edited 2 times in total.

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Just Passing Through
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I see .. but some more on the Baldwin Mansion part:

Well, I can't imagine anyone spray-painting on the outer wall if it had only been vacant for a few days; I'd think it'd have to be much longer that that--months to years even.

Indeed. But what happens, when a whole family dies? There's noone left to life in the house.
So there will be a notary who will search for relatives to inherit the mansion. If not, there's most likely to be an auction .. especialy if it's such a fancy building.
But it doesn't look like any realtor has put a feet across the treshold. Anyhow, there are flowers in the lobby, the library is messy, then there is Amy's room ..
You know what I mean? The house isn't just empty - it's more like nobody cares for it anymore. And that from the moment on when the last resident died.
Like "let's build a fence around it and it will be forgotten".
But maybe it's just me.

As for Ernest - I'm sure you have another theory about him and his connection to Maria and James then. Guess it's worth a forum-search.

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Codicil. Actually, no, reviewing the script, Ernest died awhile ago, and the house has been abandoned for awhile. After Maria retrieves the white chrism for him, he tells her That’s the only item I couldn’t get myself. By the time I found out about it, I could no longer leave
this house. So long...


Bold'd, he's telling her that it's been a long time since he's been stuck here.

As for your post: I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at exactly. Sorry. Personally, though, I will throw one thing out there, that's entirely speculative, but a possibility: Mrs. Baldwin left her husband sometime after Amy's passing. Absolute supposition, but to me it makes sense, & is a semi-common occurrence. That would (partially) explain the condition of the household.

Amy passes away, Ernest becomes reclusive, wife leaves, attendants quit, house goes to shambles, Ernest passes away & remains a ghost.

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Just Passing Through
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That's the evidence given from the game.
Though, some of my questions still remain ..
Why wasn't the mansion sold? Because of the ghost story maybe.
But a realtor would tidy the house up after a case of death and would take care of it until it is sold. But it nearly looks like everyone (Ernest and the attendants) just left, leaving everything behind to get absorbed by the time and the whole town isn't getting curious - not even the municipalty.
It's most likely that those question can't be answered, though.

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>Why wasn't the mansion sold?
Because a Haunted Mansion level wouldn't be the same without the hauntings.

>it nearly looks like everyone (Ernest and the attendants) just left
We know, though, that Ernest passed away. I believe the situation to be similar to that of the Gillespie house from Silent Hill 1. After "[Dahlia's] daughter died in the fire," she went a little nuts. That's what the townspeople knew & believed. I don't imagine Ernest being treated much differently: His daughter died, & now he's gone crazy. Let's not speak to that Baldwin family again...

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Historical Society Historian
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For all we know the house was sold--the mansion that we visit in the game isn't exactly in the "real world." But that's if you believe there's three tiers to Silent Hill and I'm just talking out of turn at this point.

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Well, the real world--that we don't see--is essentially identical to the other world--what we do see; they're fundamentally the same appearance-wise. The only distinct difference, of course, is the monsters & the other obvious's's's's. So the Baldwin Mansion as it is now, that Maria sees, is going to be the same, at that time, for anyone who happens to go in.

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 Post subject:

Well, Ernest is a ghost. Silent Hill exists outside of the continuity of time, according to the Lost Memories thing. Ernest can probably determine past and future, but it's completely useless to him.


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Historical Society Historian
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Reality and unreality isn't the same... unreality is more of "step 2" and the otherworld is "step 3".
There are many things in the unreality that doesn't occur in the real world.
Like the collapsed roads and many strange things that "is weird".
Not everything is the same, it just looks the same, constructionwise.
The enviroments doesn't look that dirty in real Silent Hill, because they aren't abandon. If they were, then there should not be any electricity. No one pays for it, so they shut it of. Real silent hill looks like a normal town alá Twin Peaks.
Unreality bears the same architecture while differs in some points.
The otherworld does also bear the achitecture of the town, but it's really degrading.
Also, many things in these other layers of reality gets influenced by the person seeing it, or by the unwilling creator of it.

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Yep. Everything I've already said. Silent Hill isn't abandoned at this time anyway, so bringing it up was kinda useless.

There are only two realities: Reality & Unreality. The [otherside] is a part of Unreality, which is a reflection of Reality.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 14 Oct 2004
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the Adversary wrote:
There are only two realities: Reality & Unreality. The [otherside] is a part of Unreality, which is a reflection of Reality.


And you know this from... where... how?

One thing that speaks for the otherworld to be another "layer" of reality is experienced when you enter the room where Maria lies down on the bed. When you are in the otherworld, you hear
her breath. Which could mean she is there, but in the unreality.

My conclusion is three major layers... Reality, unreality and the otherworld.
Tell me why it's wrong.

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Hope House Careworker
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Good god how many threads have been consumed with you 2 bickering?!

Delete my spam!!!

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Historical Society Historian
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casuallydressed wrote:
Good god how many threads have been consumed with you 2 bickering?!

Delete my spam!!!


Maybe because I'm alone in wanting to discuss his theories rather than just saying "awsome dude" everytime. I'm not agreein on everything, which makes a good start point of a discussion.
I still agree with him on many things, but not everything...

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Historical Society Historian
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I thought it was obvious that the otherside is unreality, since it's not real and not in this plane of existence.. That's what I think, anyway.

The three layers that I believe exist are the real Silent Hill that we never see, the foggy Silent Hill, and the [otherside]/dark/nightmare Silent Hill.

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Historical Society Historian
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Ok... I shall stand corrected.

It may have been wrong of me to call it "unreality" due to what the word actually means. Indeed right, Reality and Unreality is the two major sides.

But in talks of layers of realities, there are, as you say, real Silent Hill, mist Silent Hill and dark Silent Hill.
Those three are the three layers I spoke of, but I will correct what I call them in future posts.


P.S Kriss... how da heck did you afford those things and still have 2000 credits?
Do you get beautydonations or what? D.S

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