We want YOU, Receiver...

Post by **Void** » 15 Dec 2005

Is there any particular reason (besides the obvious gameplay purpose) why the ghosts of Walter's victims try to kill Henry? Have they become Walter's minions, or do they have some other motive I'm not aware of?

Post by **Folterung** » 15 Dec 2005

i think that their main motive on that was if they had killed henry, the 21 sacraments would nat have been complete. Basically theyre trying to prevent walter's plans of carrying out the 21 sacraments from happening

Post by **Void** » 15 Dec 2005

So they're trying to kill Henry before he becomes 'wise' enough? Otherwise, I would think killing him would just help Walter, not hinder him. I don't know of any special required circumstances for his death... unlike, say, gathering the earlier 10 Hearts.

This also makes me wonder, if any of the earlier ghosts trying killing/interferring with earlier victims, or is Henry simply important enough to deserve their unliving focus?

Post by **emptimass** » 15 Dec 2005

Perhaps they envy the living. But that is probably not the case.
The whole realm in which they exist is within the confines of
Walter's dream world/otherside. In this case they are probably
his minions.

Post by **Glazarus** » 15 Dec 2005

No, the only reason that Walter is attacking Henry is to give him another motif to go on. He is hunting him so he never stops. If he didn't do that, then Henry could wonder the dreamworld forever. Think of Henry in the apartment... he never gets hungry. Why? Couse time doesn't flow there as it should.

Walter is always pushing him forward, while the ghosts rather want to kill Henry.
Either they kill henry or Henry manage to understand how to make it all stop.
If not, Walter gets what he want.

Post by **The Adversary** » 15 Dec 2005

>he never gets hungry.
Because he's been trapped in his room for five days. I wouldn't feel like eating either. Secondly: He has eaten. Everything he had, in fact.

Post by **Glazarus** » 15 Dec 2005

the Adversary wrote:>he never gets hungry.
Because he's been trapped in his room for five days. I wouldn't feel like eating either. Secondly: He has eaten. Everything he had, in fact.

How much food do you got in your apartment right now? How long do you think that will last?
It's not that a human lasts less then five days without food... hell, they found that woman in pakistan who was without food for two months, still living. (well, not a usuall life though)
It's just that he doesn't feel any need to eat... he isn't hungry, and even after 18 hours without food, does he feel hungry. He fights monsters and is very physical throughout the game... but hungry..? nah, he's not.

I think everyone gets hungry if they run around like him... hell, I even get hungry when I play the game.

Post by **The Adversary** » 15 Dec 2005

Neat. Subjective & supposition.

Post by **D90** » 15 Dec 2005

Void, if the Ghost kill Henry, they arent helping Walter.
The sacrements, are numbered for a reason.
I assume they have to be killed in the correct order.

Post by **Folterung** » 15 Dec 2005

after all, each victim was killed by walter, and carved with a number, and i dont think its the ghosts who are doing it

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 16 Dec 2005

If it's all in Walter's otherworld mind, then the ghosts killing you is probably no different than Walter himself killing you..

Post by **Void** » 16 Dec 2005

Ah, okay, makes sense now. I had known my own answer before, but it's been a long while...

Post by **Glazarus** » 16 Dec 2005

FrozenHalo wrote:If it's all in Walter's otherworld mind, then the ghosts killing you is probably no different than Walter himself killing you..

We never know if the Ghosts work for Walter or not. They are never seen together with him.
Other enemies, from the other catagory, hunts him as much as you, but thats because they are based on lill Walters fears. The victims are based on guilt, so I think they are against Walter too.
In that case, the ghosts try to prevent the 21 sacraments (heresis) by killing the last victim, you, before you get all the knowledge.

So, if you want to save tomorrow, die to day... (good ghost slogan

)

One thing that is interesting is that the person who actually saves the day is Frank.
If he never kept the Umbilical cord, then the flesh would never have returned to the conjurer.
So, Frank is the hero in this game

Post by **Mis Krist.** » 16 Dec 2005

I never thought of the ghosts as having their own agendas--how could they? I saw them as pawns of Walter's, he could use them for his gain since the fact that they are haunting his realm pretty much indicates some part of their soul is under his control, and stuck forever in his world. I don't think they had any will of their own left to them to express any desire to stop Henry from living or gaining more "wisdom," they were just acting on their Walter's demands.

Frank's also some odd, lonely old guy who kept an umbilical cord for unknown reasons. Seriously, Frank, an umbilical cord?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 16 Dec 2005

I think the way the ritual works is that Walter ABSORBS those poeple...They are assumed into his own being. How else would killing poeple with detachment benefit you in a ritual? It would require the transferal of lifeforce/soul of some sort. He even devours their blood/hearts early on. I'd say they are trapped within his own existence, and do his bidding.

*EDIT*

Walter never physically killed anyone in his world, anyhow.
Those creatures and the worlds literally MUST be his own manifestations and nothing else. When those characters die in those worlds, it was always sudden and mysterious. Walter never walked up and went PB&J on them himself.

I'm pretty sure if Walter can claim your sacrifice by you frying in a normal wooden chair, then a ghost draining your life is the same difference...

Post by **Glazarus** » 16 Dec 2005

FrozenHalo wrote:
Walter never physically killed anyone in his world, anyhow.
Those creatures and the worlds literally MUST be his own manifestations and nothing else. When those characters die in those worlds, it was always sudden and mysterious. Walter never walked up and went PB&J on them himself.

I'm pretty sure if Walter can claim your sacrifice by you frying in a normal wooden chair, then a ghost draining your life is the same difference...

Actually, Walter DO attack the monsters. At least he attacks the "fear" catagory, that most likely is created by Little Walter. We never see Walter attack or get attacked by the "Guilt" catagory, but as I explained in other threads about the "unwilling creator" of the otherworlds, Walter may have created a world, but he sure as hell can't get rid of the darkness in his heart. It's like james in Sh2, but this time, Walter has other powers. He is invincible, which means that the "Guilt" catagory can't be able to kill him. It's also he who makes this world live.
My beliefs is that the ghosts try to put an end to the 21 sacraments, so that the world would last forever. The "fear" catagory is fears that Walter has from his childhood. Kinda fruedian if you think about it.

It's an assumption that the ghosts have an agenda, but if the "fear" cataogry attacks Walter, then why wouldn't the "guilt" do the same.

Post by **Folterung** » 16 Dec 2005

>It's an assumption that the ghosts have an agenda, but if the "fear" cataogry attacks Walter, then why wouldn't the "guilt" do the same.

you kinda just answered your question there

The guilt category of monsters(im assuming those are the ghosts) dont want to destroy their world by killing walter, instead they want to prevent the 21 sacraments by killing henry

Post by **D90** » 16 Dec 2005

Walter never physically killed anyone in his world, anyhow

Okay...how about the time he kills Bobby Randolf and Sein Martin together, and Sein Martin hears it? That seems pretty real-world.
And the time he enters the Pet Shop and kills Steve Garland with a Sub-Machine gun. Once again, seems pretty real-world

Post by **The Adversary** » 16 Dec 2005

>Walter never physically killed anyone in his world, anyhow
His World, not the Real World (Austin). The first ten victims are all killed in the real Ashfield & Silent Hill. The final victims are killed in Walter's Realm, but they die in the Real World (Paris).

Also, just so you know: Sein & Bobby may or may not have been killed at the same time. And it was Jasper who was there at modicum, whom the Devil was talking to.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 16 Dec 2005

And now that you mention it, if the "devil" that Jasper was introduced to was the killing Walter, the dark half, that pretty much confirms that the psychotic rants from Walter, while being arrested, in SH2's reports were from the "human" half, in regards to his dark half, "the Devil"...

So it seems Walter's darker split didn't even look like Walter to himself. Inside, the normal Walter felt his dark intentions and murderous needs were seeds planted by "The Devil", therefore that is how his own Dark Half appeared to him, visually?