Silent Hill 2 Timeline

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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The Adversary
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

Post by The Adversary »

>As an Art Director, it may make sense for Ito to draw Silent Hill 2 as stuck in the 70s for that reason.<
Honestly, I think the reason Ito has said what he said is because the scenery and town of SILENT HILL 2 was predominantly inspired by the film Jacob's Ladder, set in 1975. Sure, still not early-'80s. But it's very much the aesthetic of the town. And, as you said, the hospital depicted in the game is very much reminiscent of Jacob's hospital, before the shift he experiences—incredibly outdated, especially.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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Double-post but whatever. Sue me.

>This is clearly a poster of the Dallas Cowboys, showing Michael Irvin (88) and Larry Allen (73), who played in the Super Bowl in 1994 (and 1993, for that matter).<
I'd been thinking about this after the recent Discord conversation regarding my thought that Wood Side Apartments have been abandoned for awhile, and possibly set for demolition.

Are we sure that's Larry Allen (73)? I see Michael Irvin (88) for sure, but am having a hard time seeing 73

I ask because Allen wasn't drafted until April 1994, so he wouldn't have been on the '94 Super Bowl team.

However, Erik Williams (79) was on both the '93 and '94 teams, so I think it might actually be a 79 and not 73. Plus, he was an offensive lineman, as opposed to defensive like Allen, so they would actually be on the field at the same time.

One could argue that Wood Side Apartments have then been abandoned for a full year, which sounds a lot more reasonable, that the apartment closed down between February 1993 and May 1994. Assuming, of course, this is even an image from either Super Bowl. I'm been searching for the source image with no luck. It might just be a football card blown up, as opposed to an actual poster.

Just more stupid thoughts.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

Post by alone in the town »

So I went to the Dallas Cowboys subreddit awhile ago and asked for their help in figuring it out. It turns out, it's not either of the players I believed it was. I'll just repost the answer I got:
That looks like Emmitt Smith in Super Bowl 28, Irvin did not wear forearm/elbow pads (just gloves and double wristband) nor thigh or kneepads, all three of which are visible by the ball carrier in this image. That thick, white facemask with double horizontal bars at the top and bottom with triple vertical bars over the mouth looks like the 90s Bills, particularly with the dark jerseys and lettering consitent with the Bills then. I'd say that is either Cornelius Bennett or Oliver Barnett over Emmitt's shoulder. We can reasonably exclude the previous SB vs the bills as Smith wore elbow pads, not forearm pads in that game. The Dallas lineman on the right is probably John Gesek, who was starting at center after Stepnoski was injured in week 13. Larry Allen did not come into the league until the next season.

All said, this is the closest image I could find. It looks like it could be a different moment in the same play.

Sorry I could not get you the exact source but that is probably close. Maybe check old football card images or posters but this might even be a still taken from an old VHS tape.
ImageImage

Insofar as the apartments being abandoned, I believe that abandonment and neglect is an extremely powerful theme all throughout this game that we've all overlooked, perhaps as central to the entire story as anything else in it, and that maybe none of these places are really abandoned outside of James' subjective experience. I'm cooking up a lil old school lecture on the subject.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

Post by Lifetolifeless »

Great recon there, Ryantology. Seeing that shot from the Super Bowl, their theory of a different timestamp from the same carry sure feels plausible. Or not even a different timestamp, but more just "paint-over liberties" so often exercised by time-constrained art staff needing to quickly prop a space out and throw a lil smoke on their trail. Different tilt of the limbs, remove socks, convert "22" to "88" with a touch, but still benefit from all the drama of the composition.


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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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Better yet — still from 1994.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

Post by Chris Sunderland »

If they try to emulate early 80s tech in the remake to be more pronounced in the time period then it kinda messes with the games using the Adversary's timeline. Perhaps Konami and Ito are just not considering anything post Team Silent as canon anymore. While I think most old head Silent fans have a western game or 2 they like the gist is the series went down hill after 4 and I don't think most fans would put up fight if the later games were non canon. However if they don't recognize them and the remake doesn't out right state "hey it 1979" then we just have to consider the fact Ito wasn't on any games post 3 and his head canon and intentions were changed by the future developers of the franchise.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

Post by NanayaShiki »

Regardless of what you think about the timeline and Ito's comments vs later games, nothing the remake does is really going to replace the original in terms of canon to the series as it's been. Original is always going to be the main source.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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Konami has never been that hard on deciding what's canon or not in the Silent Hill series, which is pretty refreshing (unlike Capcom who's claiming that both the originals and remakes of Resident Evil 1-4 takes place in the exact same timeline, lol).
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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> While I think most old head Silent fans have a western game or 2 they like the gist is the series went down hill after 4 and I don't think most fans would put up fight if the later games were non canon.

Hell Downpour is my favorite game in the series and I wouldn't really care if it's wiped from canon. What is and isn't canon in Silent Hill isn't really important compared to other series since most of the games are self-contained with some references to other entries.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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Unless SILENT HILL 2: REMAKE is absolutely identical to the original, with absolutely no changes in content, I would just consider this an alternate timeline and nothing more. Then if we get another remake, that continues within this new timeline.

>I don't think most fans would put up fight if the later games were non canon.<
I don't know if it's "most fans." I think it's more like the "most vocal fans." Personally, I never would disregard any later entries just because I don't like them. Like, I hated playing SILENT HILL: HOMECOMING and SILENT HILL: DOWNPOUR, but they're still part of the series. The only games I exclude from the canon are BOOK OF MEMORIES and SHATTERED MEMORIES and that's because they're clearly outside of the Silent Hill universe.
Last edited by The Adversary on 23 Oct 2022, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

Post by MistahJ »

The Adversary wrote: 23 Oct 2022 Unless SILENT HILL 2: REMAKE is absolutely identical to the original, with absolutely no changes in content, I would just consider this an alternate timeline and nothing more. Then if we get another remake, that continues with in this new timeline.
That's how I'm choosing to look at it, too. I take the same approach with the Resident Evil remakes for the most part.

As for what's considered canon or not, I don't really have a problem with the post-SH4 games being considered canon. I just personally find the first four games the most interesting and the most "Silent Hill" feeling of all the entries, despite their differences. So I don't really take the latter games into consideration when thinking about the series as a collective whole if that makes sense. Not that they can't fit in, I just don't think they contribute as much to the whole series.

In a way, I'm mostly excited about any more potential remakes. Even if they change things and I view it as a separate timeline, I think it will be fun and interesting to see those games in a different light and possibly get me to reevaluate how I interpret the originals. All in all, while I'm a little wary of these new games, I'm still very excited to see a revival of the series after so many years.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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>Not that they can't fit in, I just don't think they contribute as much to the whole series.<
I dunno. They still add to the story, and I don't think they take anything away from the others. There's nothing egregiously contradictory, at least, but I appreciate they add to the overall narrative and history of the town, however much people don't necessarily like it.

But, you know me. I'm all about the history of the town and am trying to create a sense of continuity throughout the entire series, so I'm a sucker for this sort of stuff, however convoluted it gets.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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The Adversary wrote: 24 Oct 2022 >Not that they can't fit in, I just don't think they contribute as much to the whole series.<
I dunno. They still add to the story, and I don't think they take anything away from the others. There's nothing egregiously contradictory, at least, but I appreciate they add to the overall narrative and history of the town, however much people don't necessarily like it.

But, you know me. I'm all about the history of the town and am trying to create a sense of continuity throughout the entire series, so I'm a sucker for this sort of stuff, however convoluted it gets.
Oh they definitely add to the series and I even like alot of the additions. I just don't find what they add to be as interesting or noteworthy, I guess? Like I don't think about them as much as SH1-4, that's all.
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Re: Silent Hill 2 Timeline

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Totally fair. SILENT HILL: HOMECOMING and SILENT HILL: DOWNPOUR are almost entirely off my mind. I only played them once apiece and never really bothered delving too much into them. Though I do still appreciate what they add to the narrative. HOMECOMING may add a little too much, to be honest. And I think DOWNPOUR has more to add than I give it credit for, it was just so . . . fucking . . . tedious to play that I couldn't even enjoy most of the background elements.
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