Silent Hill 2 Timeline

[Chris Sunderland]

Because of the other team members' lack of commentary, Ito is doing a lot of the shaping of the narrative on these games. Anybody who dares go against his word on more mainstream sites also gets met with a ton of hate and "how dare you question him" type shit.

Well he does know a lot. He worked on these games. I think in most cases he's been justified in shutting down people dismissing his insight on development. I'd rather have his knowledge on the development of the series than nothing. I also wouldn't hit up his Twitter saying he's wrong about the timeline, it's clear he's looking at this from how he envisioned SH2 and how it looked. He wasn't the only one working on the game obviously and we can piece together that SH2 and the whole series overall take place in the Adversary's timeline (probably). I think Ito saw the town in SH2 as 70s/80s in a visual sense and that's where that statement comes from.

[Jonipoon]

To be fair, there were lots of places and towns in the 90s that had not undergone renovation since the late 70s - mid 80s. The mid to late 90s saw a huge boom in redesign and renovation. So it's not really out of the blue to imagine James visiting Silent Hill in the 90s while it still has a certain "vintage" look to it.

[Chris Sunderland]

To be fair, there were lots of places and towns in the 90s that had not undergone renovation since the late 70s - mid 80s. The mid to late 90s saw a huge boom in redesign and renovation. So it's not really out of the blue to imagine James visiting Silent Hill in the 90s while it still has a certain "vintage" look to it.

I think that's what most of us are saying. I must think he's means the towns vibe and or look more than an actual time frame for the game to take place.

[abscindere]

Because of the other team members' lack of commentary, Ito is doing a lot of the shaping of the narrative on these games. Anybody who dares go against his word on more mainstream sites also gets met with a ton of hate and "how dare you question him" type shit.

Well, he's not the only one who said that the game happens in the 70s~80s. In the "Silent Hill 2 Official Complete Guidebook" Hiroyuki Owaku says the same thing:

現実 世界に おける 地理 的な 位置は、 どの 地域
を イメージして います か？

大和 久： 前 作の 町と 同様、 地理 的な 位置は ァ メリ カ 北東 部に なります。 時代 設定は 70 〜 80 年代です が、 特に 参考に した 場所はありません。 「今、 自分が 住んで いる 町から 人が みんない なく なって しまったら …… 」 という 妄想は、 誰し も一 度は 考えること だと 思います。 そ れが 現実 となって しまつ た 町が サイレント ヒルです。
Chapter 7 : Exclusive information, pg. 134

Translated with Google:

What geographical location in the real world do you imagine?

Owaku: Like the town in the previous game, the geographical location is in the northeastern United States. The time period is set in the 70s~80s, but there is no particular place that was used as reference. I think everyone has had the fantasy of "What if everyone disappeared from the town I live in now..." at least once. Silent Hill is the town where that dream has become reality.
Chapter 7: Exclusive information, pg. 134

[Chris Sunderland]

https://www.reddit.com/r/silenthill/s/qPQfY7h12h

Seems he's double downing on it now. Camcorder be damned I guess.

[leftshoe18]

I guess SH2 must exist in a universe where camcorder tech advanced a few years quicker than real life.

[The Adversary]

I guess SH2 must exist in a universe where camcorder tech advanced a few years quicker than real life.

Ito is certainly an invaluable resource, especially for a series that was left-for-dead as of only a couple years ago. It's just . . . not everything he says can be the Last Word. Even Owaku's statement about SILENT HILL 2 being "set in the 70s~80s" doesn't work for the same reason. Owaku's claim was also made long before THE ROOM and on — games neither he nor Ito worked on (SILENT HILL 3 being their last) and games Ito specifically has said he's not particularly interested in.

As I've iterated before: Ito and Co. may very well have written and designed SILENT HILL 2 as though it were set in the '80s. It's entirely believable. However, they did not leave that framework for the people responsible for later games, and, as such, it was out of their hands what the timeline became.

[leftshoe18]

Oh yeah, I was just being sarcastic with that comment. I agree with where your timeline has it placed as it's what makes the most sense.

[The Adversary]

Oh yeah, I was just being sarcastic with that comment. I agree with where your timeline has it placed as it's what makes the most sense.

Ah, gotcha. My bad!

For the record: I'm not trying to say or imply anything remotely close to the idea that I know more than Masahiro Ito. That would be ridiculous. I think it's fair to say I know my shit regarding the Silent Hill series, though, and the timeline is pretty dang good on the whole. It's effectively survived intense scrutiny for nearly 20 years now, with only a couple significant changes, mostly in its formative years.

And because of all this talk about it, spurred by Ito's more recent involvement, I have been trying to rework my entries for SILENT HILL 2 (and related entries) in a way that fits Ito and Owaku's comments. I have always prided my timeline on its inclusion of as many sources as possible (and available) to make it not just the first but also the most comprehensive — and while being as accurate as humanly conceivable.

That said: I haven't found a way to reconcile that idea that James' journey takes place in the 1980s while also taking everything else into consideration. Other information or facts have to be excluded or ignored to get there.

The best I can do is [removed]. And, as of right now, that is only in the beginning of the concept of a plan stage.

Here's Tom with the weather.

[Chris Sunderland]

Oh yeah, I was just being sarcastic with that comment. I agree with where your timeline has it placed as it's what makes the most sense.

Ah, gotcha. My bad!

For the record: I'm not trying to say or imply anything remotely close to the idea that I know more than Masahiro Ito. That would be ridiculous. I think it's fair to say I know my shit regarding the Silent Hill series, though, and the timeline is pretty dang good on the whole. It's effectively survived intense scrutiny for nearly 20 years now, with only a couple significant changes, mostly in its formative years.

And because of all this talk about it, spurred by Ito's more recent involvement, I have been trying to rework my entries for SILENT HILL 2 (and related entries) in a way that fits Ito and Owaku's comments. I have always prided my timeline on its inclusion of as many sources as possible (and available) to make it not just the first but also the most comprehensive — and while being as accurate as humanly conceivable.

That said: I haven't found a way to reconcile that idea that James' journey takes place in the 1980s while also taking everything else into consideration. Other information or facts have to be excluded or ignored to get there.

The best I can do is [removed]. And, as of right now, that is only in the beginning of the concept of a plan stage.

Here's Tom with the weather.

Mabe the remake will lean more into the supposed late 80s timeframe. Ito seems to be double and tripling down on it not being in the 90s, while also being finicky on when exactly it does take place. He's bounced from late 70s, early 80s and late 80s. Definitely not the 90s, which almost just comes across like he's just dismissing it to dismiss it. I know he's not, but it is weird how hung up on it he is.

[Burning Man]

Mabe the remake will lean more into the supposed late 80s timeframe. Ito seems to be double and tripling down on it not being in the 90s, while also being finicky on when exactly it does take place. He's bounced from late 70s, early 80s and late 80s. Definitely not the 90s, which almost just comes across like he's just dismissing it to dismiss it. I know he's not, but it is weird how hung up on it he is.

It's probably not apparent to fans these days, but the original SH2 started development in 1999. If you place SH2 in the 90s, that would mean that the game happens only a couple of years back from when they started development. This would conflict with their design to place the game somewhat in the past. 70-80s gives the game almost a generation of time from 1999.

I don't remember when The Adversary started his timeline project, but I'm assuming we were well into mid-2000s. So, a timeframe of 1994 would be a decade away and feel like "back in the days."

Anachronism exists in fiction. The developers made a mistake with the camcorder. Ito could have just said that was an oversight, but I guess he was trying to see if it was somewhat salvageable by placing the game in the late 80s.

[Chris Sunderland]

I just think Ito should let it be. Let it be another interpretation like everything else. The difference between late 80s and early 90s is nothing, not enough to date something more compared to another. Either that or go head first into it and make it more apparent in the remake.

[The Adversary]

I don't remember when The Adversary started his timeline project, but I'm assuming we were well into mid-2000s. So, a timeframe of 1994 would be a decade away and feel like "back in the days."

I started shortly after the release of THE ROOM (7 September) so late 2004 or early 2005.

>If you place SH2 in the 90s, that would mean that the game happens only a couple of years back from when they started development.<
Speaking of which: This seems to be the case with THE ROOM. Authors often use the year in which they begin their story to make it easier to keep track of as they continue. THE ROOM began production in 2001 and 6-year-old Walter's diary coincides with that (1973-4).

Ito has recently posted a slew of tweets regarding the timeline, in all of which he asseverates it was not the '90s. But, again, the only evidence of that is his word. Nothing else in the game itself or supplementary material works with that.

[Droo]

From the new Red Reaper ARG we know the original Walter Sullivan murders began in the 1990s, so the fact James found an article about his suicide means it almost certainly took place in the 90s.

It says the case continued into the 2000s, which is likely a reference to the events of SH4. We also know SH4 had to take place before 2008 from that ARG, so SH4 has to be early 00s. That solidly places SH2 into the 1990s.

[The Adversary]

From the new Red Reaper ARG we know the original Walter Sullivan murders began in the 1990s

This has been such an anomaly for me. Ito has insisted SILENT HILL 2 took place in the late '70s/early '80s, and then, more recently, was open to the late '80s. I'm fine with all of that — and, per this thread, have tried to make that work.

And then Red Reaper happened.

Word's still out on its significance — it's fuckin' cool as hell, no matter what you think of how the series is going — but it's really, really pushing an early 2000s date for THE ROOM, while still using all the details from the game itself. And all that official information I used for my timeline says SILENT HILL 2 happened a decade (or so) before THE ROOM. Or . . . the '90s.

[Jonipoon]

Yes, I don't think the Red Reaper stuff messes with your timeline that much, does it?

[The Adversary]

It really hasn't affected any of it.

[Chris Sunderland]

Is Red Reaper the note James finds in SH2? Or something from SH4?

[The Adversary]

Is Red Reaper the note James finds in SH2? Or something from SH4?

*Red Reaper* is the new ARG hidden in the Silent Hill Historical Society website. Here's a thread about it. I'll write a full recap this afternoon — it was just "solved," as far as I can tell.

The museum's website includes several points of data from Silent Hill's history — most of which we already knew and/or was included in my timeline. It does have some new information hidden with its story, none of which contradicts my work, so I should be added it to my timeline, as well.

[Chris Sunderland]

Oh very nice. I've been dodging stuff from the remake lately and only glanced at the ARG. I'll check it out.