"Even Momma Said It..." Angela Thread (Spoilers)

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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"Even Momma Said It..." Angela Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Deathbywoodenplank »

**I scanned through quicklinks and couldn't find this theory. If there is one, please delete promptly and give me my slap-of-the-wrist**

Angela is my ultimate Silent Hill muse. She's so dark, mysterious, fascinating, haunting; I could go on. I've looked up most of the theories on her mannerisms and problems, but the one that interests me the most is her relationship with her mother.

NOW--this isn't just a post about her mother. The thing I found odd was there's no physical manifestation of her mother present in the game. She apparently had just as many frustrations with her mother as she did her father, and she was able to bring about a creature based off of her troubled past with Thomas. That led me to think, "Why isn't there any evidence of frustrations with her mother?"

What if Silent Hill, or rather her perception--her Hell--of Silent Hill, is her "mother?" I'm not talking about Walter Sullivan hocus-pocus with the apt. being his mommy, but I mean: the spiritual part of Silent Hill that influences all who enter? As mentioned before, most of the victims of Silent Hill are drawn to it by some sort of sin or dark past, then are faced with trials to resolve their troubled lives and face their punishment and godly jurisdiction. Angela obviously feels guilty for leaving home and killing her father and is waiting for somebody to punish her for her crime. Without any sort of response from her real mother, the town could claim her. From the evidence of the Eddie boss, people are spiritually "called" to the town. When Angela was called, she knew that it was a call for her punishment and could have easily resolved it to be her mother calling her instead of some paranormal force.

Now while in Silent Hill, the town is mentally destroying her conscience, slowly making her insane, and implementing the proper punishment for her sins. Not knowing what exactly is doing this to her, she believes it is her mother slowly disowning her. The town is also trying to push the truth onto her fragile brain. Take what she says to James on the burning staircase:

"Even momma said it. I deserved what happened."

The town is trying to make Angela realize that she's done a terrible thing.

Overall, this is just an observation of her troubled past and a look at how the town was manipulating her emotions to make her think certain things were true. It was just Angela's frail state of mind that led her to believe Silent Hill was her "momma".
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Post by AuraTwilight »

NOW--this isn't just a post about her mother. The thing I found odd was there's no physical manifestation of her mother present in the game. She apparently had just as many frustrations with her mother as she did her father, and she was able to bring about a creature based off of her troubled past with Thomas. That led me to think, "Why isn't there any evidence of frustrations with her mother?"
To be fair, we don't see Angela's entire experience in Silent Hill. Lack of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
What if Silent Hill, or rather her perception--her Hell--of Silent Hill, is her "mother?" I'm not talking about Walter Sullivan hocus-pocus with the apt. being his mommy, but I mean: the spiritual part of Silent Hill that influences all who enter? As mentioned before, most of the victims of Silent Hill are drawn to it by some sort of sin or dark past, then are faced with trials to resolve their troubled lives and face their punishment and godly jurisdiction. Angela obviously feels guilty for leaving home and killing her father and is waiting for somebody to punish her for her crime. Without any sort of response from her real mother, the town could claim her. From the evidence of the Eddie boss, people are spiritually "called" to the town. When Angela was called, she knew that it was a call for her punishment and could have easily resolved it to be her mother calling her instead of some paranormal force.
She got a letter from her mother, so yea.
Now while in Silent Hill, the town is mentally destroying her conscience, slowly making her insane, and implementing the proper punishment for her sins. Not knowing what exactly is doing this to her, she believes it is her mother slowly disowning her. The town is also trying to push the truth onto her fragile brain. Take what she says to James on the burning staircase:
I don't believe the town is an active force with an agena. Angela is doing this to herself. She's punishing and torturing herself because she feels guilty, even though from the perspective of any sane, caring person she's totally innocent.
The town is trying to make Angela realize that she's done a terrible thing.
Angela never felt otherwise. If anything, the town was probably urging her to remember that she was justified by having her father keep attacking her.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by DamienPales »

She apparently had just as many frustrations with her mother as she did her father[...]
I'm not so sure if that's entirely true if you take other parts of SH2 into consideration. She's in the graveyard looking for her mother, which kind of leans toward her still having feelings of affection for her. Also, in the Orosco family picture in the mirror room, she rips out the father part, but keeps the mother part intact.

She hated her father enough to murder him. Just because her mother said that Angela deserved the abuse doesn't mean that Angela automatically hates her. Hell, I think Angela actually agrees with her. Why Angela or her mother thinks she deserves abuse is another debate...
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Post by The Adversary »

>in the Orosco family picture in the mirror room, she rips out the father part
We don't know the photo is of the Orosco family. There's no evidence suggesting such.
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Post by DamienPales »

No, it's just a random family photo in a random room where a random person was talking about her aforementioned random family.

You're right. I'm sorry. How dare I infer things based on contextual evidence.
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Post by Deathbywoodenplank »

^You don't have to be so blunt :p And as far as you know it really might not be the Orosco family photo. Does it have their name on it? (I know the evidence is kind of obvious, but seriously. There's not technical proof...) I agree with MMY. Maybe Team Silent put it there to f*ck with us :|
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Regardless, the point is still valid. It's a happy family photo, and Angela ripped off the father's face. Whether it's a picture of her own family or not is, ultimately, irrelevant.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by The Adversary »

>How dare I infer things based on contextual evidence.
You don't have "contextual evidence." You have a contextual assumption. There's a difference.

Do you carry family 4x6s around w/ you? I've never met anyone who does—esp. not of a family s/he abhors. Angela more likely found a photograph of a family in the apartment.
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Post by Kenji »

Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't there a camera hack that showed the entire family in the photo to be blonde?

It's somewhere on this forum, I'm sure of it...

EDIT: Well, the search function didn't help... gah, I should've saved it when I had the chance... :?
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Post by The Adversary »

The daughter and mother are blond; the father and son are brunettes—if I recall correctly. I know the father has brown hair.

alone in the town made the thread, I believe, though it could also have been made before the hack. I think it was called "The Orosco family like you've never seen them before"—something like that.

Boosh. He changed the name to represent the photograph more accurately.

Image
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Post by Chrysaor »

Notice how she sees James as her mother. While I hate to crush theories, I think it's much more plausible to think that Angela sees manifestations of her family (much as James sees manifestations of Mary), because her family is what has filled her with hate, regret, doubt, and self-loathing. And as far as we can infer, she lived in Silent Hill at one point or another. So she wasn't called there, she was only chasing memories, or trying to absolve herself of all of the regret of the murder of her father.

The only reason I think the 'Abstract Daddy' was manifested in both worlds was because that's the time when Angela's and James' problems came closest together. James is deprived of sex, and along with that comes sexual depravity. He may have fantasized of raping someone at some point or another to relieve his sexual urges. Possibly even Mary. And Angela was sexually abused by her father, or so it is strongly inferred by this manifestation.

- 'Even Momma said it. I deserved what happened' was a reference to her mother saying that she deserved abuse at the hands of her father. Maybe her mother was a sick twisted bitch, or maybe she was just afraid that Thomas would leave (or kill) her if she didn't agree with him.
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Post by The Adversary »

Well, Angela probably wasn't raped.

After all, no mother would tell her daughter, "You deserved to be raped."
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Do you carry family 4x6s around w/ you? I've never met anyone who does—esp. not of a family s/he abhors. Angela more likely found a photograph of a family in the apartment.
While I agree that the photo isn't of the Oroscos, this is a bad line of reasoning: Angela could've just found a photo the town manifested depicting her family in their happier years, then tore the fuck out at it.
Notice how she sees James as her mother.
Because he's so feminine. :D
After all, no mother would tell her daughter, "You deserved to be raped."
This is fallacious and it still bugs me. Have you spoken with EVERY ABUSIVE MOTHER IN THE WORLD? If someone's own mother can push their wheelchair-bound child down stairs or cook a baby's back on a stovetop, I think saying "You deserved it, whore" isn't that out of bounds.

This is, of course, assuming that Mrs. Orosco even knew the full extent of the abuse, sexual or not. She might have thought Angela was receiving ordinary discipline. Perhaps because she wasn't home when Tom did whatever he did, or perhaps their family values were just naturally rough-handed.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by Mephisto »

>Why Angela or her mother thinks she deserves abuse is another debate...

Beauty, both a blessing and a curse.

>After all, no mother would tell her daughter, "You deserved to be raped."

A disgraceful one, yes.
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Post by JuriDawn »

^It would have to be such an extreme in terms of shitty parenting that I'm perfectly willing to write it off as infinitely improbable. Not only would Angela's mother have to make such an outrageous judgment on her daughter, she would also have to be simultaneously acknowledging that her husband is a rapist and condoning his crime.

As I've said before, if Angela had come to her mother making allegations of sexual abuse, the most likely Bad Mom response would be denial. How dare you accuse my husband of such an awful thing?

If, however, the abuse was strictly nonsexual, I can easily see a bad parent blaming the child as an alternative to standing up to a violent spouse. You know damn well that if you come home after ten your father's going to beat your ass. You had it coming.
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Post by Enika »

I don't know if this is on the same level as "you deserve it", but I know that some mothers in that situation will tell their daughter "you should have known better", as in "you should have known that was wrong and done something about it yourself".
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Post by Damn It All »

There have been many cases of rape where a daughter was being raped and the mother was not only aware but allowed it to happen. Some of you think that mothers simply wouldn't say such a thing to their daughter but the fact of the matter is that it happens.

As for the mother theory, I'm sorry I don't really buy it.
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Post by Chrysaor »

Again, Mrs. Orosco might not have known that her daughter was being raped, and was only condoning physical abuse. Of course, young Angela could misconstrue this entirely, and think that her mother is telling her that she deserved everything that happened to her. But it is pretty cut and dry that Thomas Orosco raped Angela. The Abstract Daddy is about as close as you can get to depicting rape in a videogame.

Take a second look: http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs47/f/2009/ ... entIvo.jpg

It's pretty damn suggestive, if you ask me.
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Post by neonblack »

Before this becomes another 'Angela was/was not raped' argument, the past few points made have all been discussed over thirty-nine pages in this thread: http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18770

In regards to the theory: It's implied that Angela is looking for her mother in order to kill her. But then again, it's only a common assumption, and we know how dangerous those can be. Even ignoring this conception, Angela's comments regarding her mother sort of discredit the possibility of this theory.
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Post by Mephisto »

^I don't think she's looking for her mother to kill her, remember in the "flaming stairs" cut-scene, she looks happy when she sees her mother, but then it wasn't her mother, it was James again. . .
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