Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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flipain
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by flipain »

Why are you so sure that the city is not sentient? There are strange ancient powers (gods?) there. (Aside of the God). The city seems to atract people in there, or at least is my impression, plus, how do you explain certain things, like the trick or treat show in SH2 or the ride of Heather through the horror house in SH3. It is like something was playing with them. If they survive good for them, if they dies, it's over.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by AuraTwilight »

We're pretty sure the town's not sentient because it never demonstrates any kind of will, desire, motive, or intent. It's entirely passive and reactionary, manifesting only what's in the minds of the people visiting it without giving any sort of interpretation to it. The fact that the city attracts people doesn't mean it possesses awareness either. Ever heard of magnets?

The Trick or Treat Show and the Horror House are being run by people. Either living people, dead people, or imaginary people being conjured up by James or Heather.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by lain of the wired »

It's like a mirror: it can only what's there in front of it, but it's the person seeing that reflection who ultimately interprets what they're seeing. You look in a mirror and see your reflection, but if you think you're ugly, then that's what you'll see in the reflection. If you are able (and willing!) to step back and say "wait, now- am I really ugly, or am I in a bad mood and just trying to punish myself and make myself feel worse?" then you can make yourself realize that you're not ugly and see yourself in a healthy way, as you truly are. If you just sit there and cry because you hate yourself for being ugly, then you get anally raped by the vaguely phallic representation of what you perceive to be your ugliness.

...Huh. I think I'm proud of that analogy.
The Trick or Treat Show and the Horror House are being run by people. Either living people, dead people, or imaginary people being conjured up by James or Heather.
Or they're automated. I know many tricks in carnival haunted houses are triggered by motion sensors.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by SilentWren »

lain of the wired wrote:
The Trick or Treat Show and the Horror House are being run by people. Either living people, dead people, or imaginary people being conjured up by James or Heather.
Or they're automated. I know many tricks in carnival haunted houses are triggered by motion sensors.
I have the following to put forth:
2nd game-But how can something that was automated unlock all the goodies James gets for answering right?
3rd game-I've never known a haunted house attraction to feature a red lazer that actually killed the guests. :twisted:
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by lain of the wired »

SilentWren wrote:I have the following to put forth:
2nd game-But how can something that was automated unlock all the goodies James gets for answering right?
3rd game-I've never known a haunted house attraction to feature a red lazer that actually killed the guests. :twisted:
2nd game- Do you believe that when you put a selection in a vending machine, there are chipmunks- or perhaps tiny little men- running around within, making sure you get that bag of Doritos? Or is it possible it's simply programmed to do so?
3rd game- Don't be dense.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by SilentWren »

2nd game-OMG! I KNEW IT WAS CHIPMUNKS!!! <3 Doesn't he get them from a free standing safe or something?
3rd game-I'm just sayin' that when you play on the right difficulty, that house killz the bitch. I don't see how BHM could only be automated if Heather can die. I know it's otherworld side, but that just always bugged me.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by Soulless-Shadow »

SilentWren wrote:2nd game-But how can something that was automated unlock all the goodies James gets for answering right?
Probably because he expected it to open. The otherworld is supposed to be susceptible to thought or something, so if he was certain he got it right, then voila! It opens. And yeah, I realize any other answer doesn't open it, so I'll just assume he wasn't so sure about the other answers. >_>
SilentWren wrote:3rd game-I'm just sayin' that when you play on the right difficulty, that house killz the bitch. I don't see how BHM could only be automated if Heather can die. I know it's otherworld side, but that just always bugged me.
It's because it's the otherworld the red light is there and fatal. Of course there wouldn't really be a killer red glow in the real haunted house. Bad for business. Alessa or Heather or whoever probably just has a major thing about red glowing lights in Haunted Houses, hence why it's there. I can't really think of any other explanation. I realize my answer for both are pretty silly, but that's the best I can come up with. I think it's plausible given how the otherside supposedly works.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by SilentWren »

Soulless-Shadow wrote:I realize my answer for both are pretty silly, but that's the best I can come up with.
Well, not really.
There's no way we're gonna get a clear-cut answer about BHM or Trick-or-Treat, so all we can really do is drive each other insane with theories like this. :)
I said in Dooglas's thread that t-o-t may have been Jame's own little episode of M.A.S.H. (He was manifesting something ridiculous and game-like to relieve the tension, blah blah)
It's just one of those little details that always bugged me. Like in 4, also, when one of the hauntings was a possessed Henry outside the door. It felt so out of place for some reason. Why would Walter conjur that? Wtf?
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by Soulless-Shadow »

SilentWren wrote: I said in Dooglas's thread that t-o-t may have been Jame's own little episode of M.A.S.H. (He was manifesting something ridiculous and game-like to relieve the tension, blah blah)It's just one of those little details that always bugged me. Like in 4, also, when one of the hauntings was a possessed Henry outside the door. It felt so out of place for some reason. Why would Walter conjur that? Wtf?
Because Walter wanted to freak Henry out and show him what he would become if he wasn't careful? Or rather what he wanted Henry to become...
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by Claudia »

I'm guessing she was her own punishment, she didn't need a Pyramid Head like James did.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by lain of the wired »

SilentWren wrote:2nd game-OMG! I KNEW IT WAS CHIPMUNKS!!! <3 Doesn't he get them from a free standing safe or something?
3rd game-I'm just sayin' that when you play on the right difficulty, that house killz the bitch. I don't see how BHM could only be automated if Heather can die. I know it's otherworld side, but that just always bugged me.
It can be on a track that simply runs all through the hallways and changes direction based on motion triggers. There's just no reason for the BHM to have people running it in the background, just like there's really no reason to hire more people to sit in a carnival haunted house and run the thing when it's cheaper to just have it automated- doubly so since it's SH and it seems very unusual for people to find themselves in the Otherworld. I can't see people being called to the town just to run the rides.

Don't forget, the merry-go-round became a sort of living monster itself. Why not the haunted house?
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by Doctor Eggnog »

I think it would be interesting to see a Silent Hill where each character has their own punisher, and each punisher is a boss for the main character to face, a bit like Persona 4 but darker and scarier and less obvious.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by lain of the wired »

You just described SH:H.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by GeneralSubject »

You are the character, it is yours. It is a brave violation - to 'see' punishers of others. Moreover, those people were not needed for J to do his business. To 'see', meaning a probability was mentioned that only J sees it, so for him to see other ones its... well. And if there are two of them its not enough to cope with J, think about that.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by FatalFrame »

First a little OT: I just wanted to say that this is a really awesome and fun to read thread.

Ok, I always assumed like several of you. That either Angela herself was her own punisher or the Ideal Daddy. Now there's an ironic name. I was wondering if the "punisher" (for want of a better word) of Angela could be not her mother herself but the thought of her mother. She says she doesn't find her (I think) so could it be the thought of her mother hovering out-of-sight and unreachable emotionally and physically? Just a thought,,,
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by mikefile »

It's an interesting thought. Although I still think Abstract Daddy is her "true" punisher, it wouldn't be far fetched. I believe people tend to forget the important role the mother had in the development of Angela's Otherworld. Even though it was the father who instilled physical pain upon her, I believe that most of the mental suffering came from her mother, who simply chose to ignore the fact her own daughter is being abused and blame her instead. Why the Seductress card, of course. That kind of torture might be even worse, to be let down by her final hope and the only potential bright light in her life, her mother.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by FatalFrame »

Her mother is also who she says she is looking for first, the brother and father almost seem like afterthoughts. Her voice also (to me anyway) sounds wistful. Maybe it's not even her real mother she is looking for but a more 'perfect' non-judgemental mother. And maybe that is why she can never find her.

There's a lot of maybes there and none of it is really proveable but that was my take on it.
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by Self-Seeker »

I don't think either Eddie or Angela's journey's through Silent Hill were neccessarilly intrinsically different than James's. I always thought Angela and Eddie were sort of a 'there but for the grace of God go I' sort of deal. They demonstrate how James's story can end up.

Angela is obviously the 'In Water' ending. Hell, what do you do if you want that ending? Take a good long look at the knife you got from her. She does not believe she can be redeemed or saved, so she just let's herself be consumed by her despair.

Eddie is the 'Maria' ending. He doesn't take responsibility for the things he's done, and elects to ignore it completely in favor of indulging in his need for vengeance. Much like James is ignoring the mistakes and/or self-delusion that lead him to believe Mary wrote him a letter if he decides to leave with Maria.

So I guess I'd say that even though we don't see a character or monster that is explicitly Angela's or Eddie's version of Pyramid head (with the possible exception of Abstract Daddy) that doesn't mean they didn't have them. Like James, they both have things they feel they might deserve to be punished for. Eddie has the dog and man that he shot, Angela has her patricide. So it's all pretty open for interpretation. You know, like everything else.
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Re: Did any other supporting characters have a Punisher?

Post by TIWIH777 »

lain of the wired wrote:
simeonalo wrote:She's basically forced to walk up the stair case and "admire" her work, you know, it's basically forcing her to own up.
I enjoy subconscious puns. Just sayin'. :)
alone in the town wrote:It's not just about James. We are given exclusive access to his story. It doesn't mean the others are less important.

If one considers Maria as a part of the equation, then my answer is yes. Daddy and the Laughing People are Angela's and Eddie's equivalent of James' Maria. I do not believe they have their own unstoppable Pyramid Head-like monsters, however. Considering what I believe Pyramid Head really represents, perhaps their lack of a suitable equivalent indicates that they were doomed to never come to terms with what they had done.
I like this.

James does ultimately have the option to become mentally healthy in the end- he manages to beat his punitive super-ego (AKA Pyramid Head). Angela still embraces her PSE at the end, ("I deserve this") which is why I believe she's her own "punisher." At least while we get to see her. Who knows? She may find the will to become healthy at the top of those stairs, or she may just sit down and let the fire consume her. She's ultimately her own worst enemy, in that what she did, she did to protect herself. Her guilt prevents her from accepting her own drive to survive as healthy, so she punishes herself. ...In re-reading that sentence, I'm thinking it's pretty unlikely she'd get healthy, and probably kills herself.

James, on the other hand, is in such deep denial of his part in Mary's death, you could argue that PH is sort of his visualization of the "damned disease" that killed her- and just happened to also be him. As such, it's really fitting that he has some "physical" being following him around trying to punish him, since it's the way he perceives what he's done to begin with: it wasn't me, it was someone else. But at the same time, somewhere in him he knew what he'd done, and he wanted to atone for it.

As for Eddie, he was weak. He had the chance, like all of them, to face his PSE and get some self-esteem. Based on his "crimes" as we know them, they weren't really super devastating sins: he maimed a guy, and while killing the dog was bad, like Harrys said, it's not killing your wife or family. All he needed was to get some self-esteem and atone for that, and he'd be healthy. Instead, he got defensive and buried himself in his defenses. Once a patient has entrenched themselves in their defenses that deeply, it's unlikely they'll come out again. Not to the same therapist or confronter, anyway. In SH, the confronter was the whole fucking town. So, naturally, the healthy part was smothered by the defenses and got broke. James became the necessary euthanizing method at that point, and it just helped him in his own course towards recognizing what he'd done to bring him there. In other words, having to kill Eddie was more a happy coincidence than a set role of "Eddie's Punisher."


...Sorry, long. I've been transcribing patient sessions all day and it just put me in that sort of "gung-ho PsyD" mood.

Necro post inbound. Since the town is passive and has no stake in this whole situation and is therefore impartial to any person, would Angela and Eddie be presented with the truths they need to change? I mean James gets his big reveal and then has a chance to respond to it, so surely Angela at the top of that staircase or whenever would get a chance, and surely Eddie, if he hadn't tried to kill James, would have had some truth revealed to him as well. Maybe I'm being naive, but I really hate the idea that any of the characters are boned from the start...
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Re: Did any other characters have a punisher like PH?

Post by AuraTwilight »

I would argue everyone had the same opportunities and fundamental journey outline. Angela and Eddie are basically warnings, then, of how James can end up if he makes certain choices, since they've already made theirs.
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