Real final? and in water question (SPOILER ALERT)

[Arsonist]

Maybe he couldn't face his friends and family out of guilt, even if he wasn't found out? Also, "Um...where is her body lol?" In which case, family might want a funeral, and then, "It looks like she was smothered..."

Isn’t she in trunk? Why not tell Laura to go wait somewhere as he pulls Mary out. Sure, rigor set in the weird position, but hey, shit happens, she curled up when she died.

Just because the Rebirth ending happens doesn't mean Mary has to necessarly be 100% better. What if she comes back sick all over again, or undead, or he just gets Maria or a baby?

You will notice I said “If it really worked” by that I meant, if Mary was really re-born, alive and well. Of course she could have still gone Pet Sematary on his ass, which makes the ending plausible, but I stand by my “first play-through” belief.

There are also EXIT signs, and butterflies, and other symbols of Life.

Fair enough, but I found water to be much more dominant, but still, that could just be me.

I felt the exact opposite. The two don't seem fairly good off; distant at best.

How does he know that James and Mary disappeared in Silent Hill then? James must have called him after killing Mary, which wouldn’t make sense if he and his father were distant.

Even tragedies have happy endings, and are prone to have such, by Shakespearean definition.

I’m a dumb high-schooler who doesn’t pay attention at class, but wasn’t back then considered that everything with a happy ending is a comedy, and everything with a sad ending is a tragedy, irrelevant of the content beforehand?

[The Adversary]

>James must have called him after killing Mary
Not in the slightest. Frank Sunderland knows James & Mary "disappeared in Silent Hill" b/c James told his father he was taking Mary to Silent Hill for treatment (at Brookhaven Hospital). All Frank's comments proves is that, after Mary was hospitalized in Silent Hill, she never came back, nor did James.

[Oddish]

OK, first of all. There is no canon ending. There will be no canon ending until a future SH installment produces one. And a lot of us got "Leave", more I think than got "In Water". It primarily depended on how generous or stingy were were with our health drinks. The ending you get, or the ending you favor, determines what's canon.

Second, the Leave ending is not sweet. It is ambiguous and open to all manner of interpretation. All wew know is that Laura and James both leave Silent Hill alive and at more or less the same time. See "Laura's fate post-game" for more on that.

Third, none of the three "first-game" endings are dominant per se. They are actually very Freudian in nature. according to Sigmund, the human psyche is divided into three elements: the id, the ego, and the superego. If James allows his id (emotions and desires) to dominate him, he embraces his delusion. If he allows his superego (rules, logic, and conscience) to dominate him, he destroys himself. If he allows his ego (the person that he is) to retain power, he accepts reality and escapes with life and sanity intact. Since the ego takes the energies of id and superego and relates them with the outside wordd, it could be argued that "Rebirth" is where the outside world of Silent Hill dominates: it produces the four elements of the ceremony and compels James to attempt to carry them out.

Fourth, the endings appear to balance themselves out, in a dark Silent Hillish kind of way. In "Maria", James forfeits his sanity. In "In Water", he forfeits his life. In "Rebirth", it could be interpreted that in reviving the cult, he forfeits his soul. In "Leave", he finds sanity, life, and a possibly faint hope of redemption. So with one good ending against three missteps, that would imply that "Leave" is the canon ending.

And fifth, I reiterate. To die is to lose. Deal with it.

[Arsonist]

Not in the slightest. Frank Sunderland knows James & Mary "disappeared in Silent Hill" b/c James told his father he was taking Mary to Silent Hill for treatment (at Brookhaven Hospital). All Frank's comments proves is that, after Mary was hospitalized in Silent Hill, she never came back, nor did James.

Right, I read that theory a few months before I actually joined. It makes sense, I pretty much took it as fact since it explains a lot of things, and then I kind of forgot about apparently. Sorry about that.


Oddish, I have no strength or will to argue, especially because there really is no canon ending. I simply see In Water ending and Maria ending as the most plausible ones, considering later evens. Still Leave could have happened and rebirth is very plausible too, especially if we consider we don’t know what the hell happened after it.

So, yeah, it doesn’t really matter. T’was a good game and I’m glad that it’s ending remains mysterious.

[Oddish]

Oh, there are arguments to favor other endings as well. There's an argument somewhere in here that states that Rebirth has to be the canonical one; I don't have it here. And it can also be argued that In Water is closest to canon because it's what James originally came to town to do, and the other three paths are deviations from his course. I'm sure there's an argument somewhere that insists that "Maria" makes the most sense, though I've never seen it.

The point is that any ending can be defended by a person who happens to favor it. I could write dozens or hundreds of posts defending "Leave" (which, as I'm sure you've guessed by now, I favor). But it still won't be canon unless James turns up in SH6, living elsewhere under another name.

[PeachySakura24]

Leave could be the canon ending. It seems to me that in each of the games, you can't really go home again once you leave Silent Hill, no matter the outcome of your adventure. Your life will never be the same, so whether you move to avoid the cult, you murdered your wife, some dude tried to turn your apartment into his mother, aliens abduct you, etc., there really is no normalcy again and home might not hold the same comforts for you anymore.
There are a thousand reasons to explain why James never went home besides him offing himself. Can't risk Laura accidentally blabbing his secret, can't risk Maria looking and acting like Mary's slutty twin, can't risk all the attention Mary would get if she suddenly came home perfectly healthy or trying to feast on brains.

[Oddish]

Agreed. Just because I consider "Leave" to be as close as possible to be winning the game, that doesn't mean I'm insisting that it is the canon ending. Only Konami can declare an ending to be canon. And as Captain Picard said, it is possible to make no mistakes and still lose. That's life.

[SilentKnight]

Agreed. Just because I consider "Leave" to be as close as possible to be winning the game, that doesn't mean I'm insisting that it is the canon ending. Only Konami can declare an ending to be canon. And as Captain Picard said, it is possible to make no mistakes and still lose. That's life.

lol you win oddish with the captain picard quote.

Anyway i find the leave ending to be pretty crappy and dull but thats just me. One of the rasons i preferr the in water ending is you can clearly see james wants to kill himself by all his own corpses all over the place.And just because mary forgave him do you think that makes it all better?? He killed her and he wants to die because of it.

The only reason he dosen't let the monsters tear him apart is because he wants to see mary again.

[Oddish]

On the path leading to In Water, you're right. He's miserable, and pretty close to indifferent on whether he lives or dies. That's why he doesn't bother healing his injuries; he's half in the grave and with Mary gone, he wants the rest of him to be there, too. Angela's on this path, too.

On the path to Leave, it's another story: he's focused on living, surviving, and finding Mary again. And even though the ending of his quest isn't what he hoped for, he chooses to honor her last request to him and try to move on with his life. Laura makes the same decision.

Within the parameters of the player's actions, both endings make perfect sense.

[AuraTwilight]

One of the rasons i preferr the in water ending is you can clearly see james wants to kill himself by all his own corpses all over the place.

I'm pretty sure it's been officially explained that those were just a use of lazy modeling, and don't represent James at all.

And just because mary forgave him do you think that makes it all better??

It would for most people.

[Oddish]

Of course it doesn't "make it all better". I mean, if it did, Leave would be impossible because James could just waltz back to his old life, like it all never happened. He can't. If/when Mary's body is found, an autopsy will verify that someone killed her. James will be investigated, and he'll get thrown in a 6x8 metal box with a sagguing mattresas and a stainless steel toilet that leaks. If James leaves Silent Hill, he has to cover up all connestions, sever all ties, adopt a new identity. James Sunderland dies, and a new man takes his place.

[SilentKnight]

You do have a point there oddish.

The bodies do represent James Aura it has been stated he came to silent hill to die and a manafestation of that wish is all the bodys of himself around.

Mary forgiving him dosen't mean he still didn't do it and he knows that.

[Oddish]

And he has to deal with it. SH2 is a richly symbolic game, and just because something isn't stated doesn't mean it's not meaningful.

at the end of SH0, the Good ending anyway, the endless mists of Silent Hill vanish. The trial is finished, the nightmare is over. Even in the most upbeat of SH2's endings, James remains swathed in mist, a metaphor of sorts for his uncertain future.

[AuraTwilight]

The bodies do represent James Aura it has been stated he came to silent hill to die and a manafestation of that wish is all the bodys of himself around.

Just because he came there to die doesn't mean the bodies represent him, especially since Eddie killed them all, it takes away the suicide motif. It's just like "Angela" in SH3: Lazy modeling. Developers said so themselves, take it up with them.

[SilentKnight]

lol ok Aura ill take you word for it. You are right oddish thats one of the reasons i like SH2 so much either way your still lost/screwed.