Real final? and in water question (SPOILER ALERT)

Post by **crucifix** » 22 Jun 2008

Nicole wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
I think the In Water ending, because they made reference to it in Silent Hill 4.
They did no such thing.
Not directly. I meant to Frank, and how they made reference to how his son went missing. Not reference to him dying.

and that doesn't apply to any of the other endings how?

Post by **Nicole** » 22 Jun 2008

crucifix wrote:
Nicole wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote: They did no such thing.
Not directly. I meant to Frank, and how they made reference to how his son went missing. Not reference to him dying.
and that doesn't apply to any of the other endings how?

Ritual I could understand. The "Leave" ending is unlikely because I think they could easily have been found.

Post by **crucifix** » 22 Jun 2008

Nicole wrote:Ritual I could understand. The "Leave" ending is unlikely because I think they could easily have been found.

we have no in-game indication of what happens after "leave" or the others, so there's no reason to assume that.

Post by **Nicole** » 23 Jun 2008

crucifix wrote:
Nicole wrote:Ritual I could understand. The "Leave" ending is unlikely because I think they could easily have been found.
we have no in-game indication of what happens after "leave" or the others, so there's no reason to assume that.

Exactly, which is why I personally don't find it likely.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 23 Jun 2008

For all we know, James and Laura could've changed their identities. James can't risk being arrested for murder, y'know.

Post by **Oddish** » 25 Jun 2008

All four endings are plausible, even despite SH4 canon. This has been repeatedly stated. It is the player's actions that determine what happened. Konami has, rightly, absolutely refused to supply a "canon" ending.

Post by **niko32** » 25 Jun 2008

I absolutely agree, all endings in Silent Hill 2 are plausible. I always liked the fact that you could experience the game in many different ways.
Finally some freedom against canonical followers.

Although, considering whole story, In Water ending is my favorite.

Post by **Alessyl** » 30 Jun 2008

I like the Leave ending as the real ending. And just because Frank said his son went missing doesn't mean the In Water ending is real, though that could rule out the Leave ending. Maybe this answer isn't going to be easy to figure out.

Post by **Varg6** » 30 Jun 2008

Unless someone pisses me off I'm not going to explain...I felt In Water was truest to James and what he had done. It just makes perfect sense to me, and for a tragic hero I felt he finally put himself at rest. In a sense, he forgave himself but nonetheless couldn't live without Mary.

Post by **Oddish** » 01 Jul 2008

I disagree. I would think that if James forgave himself, he would want to live, and honor Mary's memory. "In Water" suggests to me that James cannot forgive himself for his actions, just like Angela cannot forgive herself for hers. At best, it's his tragic flaw destroying him, like Javert in "Les Miserables". At worst, it's a depressing expression of nihilism.

Post by **Varg6** » 01 Jul 2008

Oddish wrote:I disagree. I would think that if James forgave himself, he would want to live, and honor Mary's memory. "In Water" suggests to me that James cannot forgive himself for his actions, just like Angela cannot forgive herself for hers. At best, it's his tragic flaw destroying him, like Javert in "Les Miserables". At worst, it's a depressing expression of nihilism.

Good point, but this is why nonetheless they kept this open to interpretation. You may feel that way, but I don't. If James thought he was alive for 3 years and in this case he wasn't but his mind was, clearly he didn't try to kill himself. But since he realized he killed his wife he truly doesn't have anything to live for anymore...thus letting himself free, free of life as depressing and horrible as that may sound.

Post by **Oddish** » 02 Jul 2008

Huh? I don't get that. In no series of events did James die three years ago.

At the beginning of the game, James thinks that Mary fell ill three years ago and died quickly. He is unaware of her hospitalization, or her friendship with Laura. Now, three years after her death, she has written him a letter, summoning him to "our special place".

In reality, James watched Mary suffer for three years. He met Laura, but they were never close; Laura disliked him. Finally, James snapped and killed Mary, then almost certainly headed toward Silent Hill to kill himself there, but lost his mind along the way. In the course of the game, he recovers his sanity and realizes the truth.

If he gets the "In Water" ending, he carries out his original plan. If he gets other endings, he deviates from it.

Post by **Varg6** » 02 Jul 2008

Oddish wrote:Huh? I don't get that. In no series of events did James die three years ago.

At the beginning of the game, James thinks that Mary fell ill three years ago and died quickly. He is unaware of her hospitalization, or her friendship with Laura. Now, three years after her death, she has written him a letter, summoning him to "our special place".

In reality, James watched Mary suffer for three years. He met Laura, but they were never close; Laura disliked him. Finally, James snapped and killed Mary, then almost certainly headed toward Silent Hill to kill himself there, but lost his mind along the way. In the course of the game, he recovers his sanity and realizes the truth.

If he gets the "In Water" ending, he carries out his original plan. If he gets other endings, he deviates from it.

You're right. I mistyped. I meant to put "she" wherever it looks retarded. My apologies. What I mean is that he thought he had 3 years of his life without Mary when in reality 3 days had only gone by since he killed Mary. My mistake, bro!

Post by **The Adversary** » 03 Jul 2008

Try a day. If that.

Post by **Oddish** » 03 Jul 2008

A very short time, in any case. Far less than three years. But we don't have a precise timetable.

I think that the ending hinges on whether or not James forgives himself. and, if he does not, how he reacts.

Leave - He forgives himself, and moves on. Some theorize that he attempts to carry out Mary's last wish in her stead.
"I came to kill myself, but Mary has forgiven me and wants me to live. I will honor her wishes."

In Water - He cannot forgive himself, so he administers his own capital punishment.
"I came to kill myself, and nothing that has happened here has changed my mind. Goodbye, cruel world."

Maria - He cannot even accept the reality of what he has done, so he opts to embrace a delusion (Maria) instaed. However, the nature of the delusion suggests that it will ultimately come crashing down on him.
"I came to kill myself, but hey, I've found a hotter version of Mary, so I'll just get down with her instead."

Rebirth - He cannot forgive himself, so he tries to reverse what he's done.
"I came to kill myself, but I've found the opportunity to undo what I did, and I'm going to try it, whatever the cost."

Post by **Nabriales** » 05 Jul 2008

I think "Rebirth" makes the most sense.

After all, the game should have some purpose in the whole Silent Hill plot, if you know what I mean. I don't think the developers would be happy with a game that merely explains some of the background story of the town and gives some insight on how people's feelings and memories make the town do the things it does.

All Silent Hill games had some important events that led to other events in future Silent Hill games. They all end up involving someone trying to make God born by some method. All but Silent Hill 2. There's no such thing in this game if we pick any of the standard endings (Leave, In Water or Maria), because I hardly see how James killing himself or leaving the town with a little girl or an imaginary woman that only can be seen by him could make any impact in future games.

If you still don't know what I'm getting at, please bear with me. I'll make a little recap of the "strong impacts" all Silent Hill games have made. I might be wrong on some things or even leave out important stuff, but I'll make my attempt. So please don't be too harsh. I'll appreciate corrections if they're, obviously, right.

Silent Hill 1 had the death of Dahlia and Alessa, who is reincarnated in Heather, and also has a failed attempt to make God born. We also learn about the Mark of Samael/Seal of Metatron that Alessa was trying to use to prevent the birth of God. Dahlia was just telling shit to Harry Â¡n order to use him against what Alessa was trying to achieve.

Silent Hill Origins mostly explains that the town already had the powers it has before Alessa manifested her nightmare on the town, as Helen and later Travis already could travel to the otherside. This should be obvious before this game even came out, but it just reassured the idea that Alessa is not the source of any "curse", as some people believe. We also get to learn more about the Flauros and how Alessa used it to create Cheryl.

Silent Hill 3 had the events of Claudia and Vincent, where they both end up dead and God again fails to be born properly from Alessa/Heather. This leads to some other events where ultimately The Order ends up destroyed. Furthermore, Harry dies during this period, and we learn more things about the Seal of Metatron, the sects, Valtiel, etc.

Silent Hill 4 has another attempt to bring God, but by using a different method, the 21 Sacraments, which if I'm not wrong is used by a different sect with different beliefs. The last priest of The Order is one of the victims used in this ritual. Also, assuming the best ending of this game is the true one, one could say two of the victims are still alive. They could still be an important piece on the whole plot of bringing God to Earth even after Walter's death.

So where does Silent Hill 2 fall? No attempt at anything? Just an "atone for your sins" galore? I belive that's wrong. If James actually tries to perform the Crimsom Ceremony, there's something going on there. He's, if I'm not wrong, summoning the Red God. And that can have an impact in the series at some point. And perhaps that point could be Homecoming, seeing as the main character shares Mary's surname (and I still don't buy that this is just a reference to Silent Hill 2, but hey, time shall tell).

I don't know if I made any sense, but there it is.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 05 Jul 2008

Helen and later Travis already could travel to the otherside.

I still think Helen was just off her rocker, as she never really went anywhere.

So where does Silent Hill 2 fall? No attempt at anything? Just an "atone for your sins" galore? I belive that's wrong.

Well, the whole point of Silent Hill 2 was to show that there's more to the town's power than "lol God."

Post by **PeachySakura24** » 06 Jul 2008

When I first played SH2, I didn't think Rebirth was even close to possible, until I found out about the Greatest Hits edition with the Maria scenario, and I was all "Oh, ok then." I agree with the general idea that any of the endings are plausible, and work perfectly well with Silent Hill 4. My personal favorite is Leave. I want James to have a happy ending, and Laura to have a parent at long last. I am a sucker for a happy ending.

However, any of them are quite possible. I hate In Water. Blah! Yuck! Obviously he disappeared there.
Maria.....well, whatever there. Obviously he isn't going to show up back home with the sexed-up Mary clone. I have to wonder if, like that ending started to suggest, history would keep repeating itself with that ending. Maybe James never fully leaves the otherworld or Misty Silent Hill if he has Maria with him, since no one else can see her. If he is trapped where no one can see him, who's to say Maria doesn't get sick like Mary, and the cycle repeats? He kills her, gets a letter, meets a clone, leaves with her, over and over.
Rebirth is awesome and scary. I agree it is plausible, but at the same time, I expect it to be like Pet Semetary. So either it worked and they disappeared together, or it failed and she lobbed his head off.

As realistic as the Dog ending is, I think we must let that one go.

However, the real and true ending is the UFO ending. James disappears because of the aliens.

Post by **Oddish** » 06 Jul 2008

Of course, all six of those endings were just written into the game to hide the actual, more disturbing truth. James, Angela, Eddie, Pyramid-head, and the dog are all still alive and secretly working for the CIA, carrying out discreet assassinations in third-world countries. And Laura, who's actually 45 years old, is their control.

Post by **PeachySakura24** » 07 Jul 2008

How did you find out about that......I mean...*ahem* that is absurd, Oddish.