Silent Hill in First Person

[alone in the town]

That's not why Downpour wasn't effective, though. Downpour just wasn't that great of a horror game. It has too many flaws dragging it down, even to a larger extent than Silent Hill 4.

I think the biggest flaw was that it threw things at me that weren't very different from how they've always been. Years of experience playing this type of game with few significant improvements over a decade+ has left me able to anticipate the sort of tricks it's going to use to scare me.

Anyway, 1st person horror games are ridiculously overdone this day and age. If Silent Hill takes a page out of that book, it will be correctly labeled as an Amnesia / Outlast ripoff.

How is this any worse than being the blatant Resident Evil ripoff it used to be, and to more or less an extent, remains? Nobody cared about it then, so I can't imagine why it should matter now.

I think there's new directions that Silent Hill needs to go in, but that is not one. It needs to strike a balance between feeling like a Silent Hill game and offering something new, while also being a high quality horror game on it's own merits. That is much easier said than done, and hopefully Kojima can pull it off.

It's easier said than done because it seems like there are several very different ideas of what "feeling like a Silent Hill game" means, and it's not possible to satisfy even most of these ingrained beliefs.

[fudgestix]

I'm tired of every horror game being a fps with monsters or a first person Amnesia/Outlast clone. The camera perspective didn't add to how scary the game is, and it bugs me so much to have my vision restricted.

The PT teaser was first person for a good reason, but outside of the reveal and some eerie audio tricks it didn't add much to the fear.

Fresh ideas from someone who understands how to make good horror is what the series needs, not a new camera angle.

[otto2302]

I don't think they would hire Norman Reedus to only be the face on the cover and not showing him in gameplay. That just feels odd.

Kojima has done a lot of 1st / 3rd person mixing in his previous games. Every Metal Gear Solid has ability to pull off first person view while sneaking / hiding / crawling in vent duct, but the games are mainly 3rd person focused. I'd wish this on Silent Hills.

Also few fixed camera sequences on some claustrophobic corridors could be really effective, but only if they wouldn't become over used.

[DistantJ]

I'm going with option A and C, because for me first person is a thousand times more scary than 3rd person has ever been. When it's first person you become the character, and see what they see. Lisa showing up in the corridor right in front of you, staring right back at you? You can't get that in 3rd person. You can't 'catch things in the corner of your eye' in the same way. For me, in SH4, the scariest parts were in the room.

[RedPyramidThingy]

I wouldn't mind having a button dedicated to switching between perspectives. I myself would stick mostly in third-person mode because I think it helps to get to know a character but it could come in handy if you want to take a closer look at something. My main problem with first-person is that combat tends to look floaty and takes up too much of the screen. I also like seeing characters react to things and show emotions.

[Skele]

I personally think it's more important for the game to be good and scary, than it is to adhere to familiar Silent Hill tropes. There appear to be many who seem to think that the tropes are necessary for the game to be good or scary, and a few who think that the tropes are even more important than the game being good or scary.

I love the perspective because it's not as scary when you can see what's behind you, and first person limits your immersion into a character only if the writers don't do a good job. And if they don't do a good job, you're not going to be immersed regardless of the perspective.

This is a chance to start over and cast off a lot of the dead weight that the series has accumulated over the course of 15 years. I want this to be fresh and different. Silent Hill hasn't been scary in a very long time, mostly because of all the changes the different developers tried to make over the course of the series, they never really tried approaching the horror differently. Some people are fine with that, but Downpour used pretty much the same formula as the first game, and it's far too old and overdone to be effective anymore.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm sorry but I don't see it as too old or "overdone"... When was the last time you saw a survival horror that was in 3rd person w/ fixed camera angles? It's been a loooong time.. There are TONS of first person horror games (in fact I think there might be too many) so if anything, I think that's overdone.

Have you ever played Alan wake? There's also the The Evil Within that's coming out. There's tons of 3rd person horror games that have been released, or are on the way. It hasn't been a "looooong" time as you suggest. Also, I don't want the entire game to have fixed camera angles, why limit what we can see? Sure, a couple of really nice angles is OK, but an entire game? That's so dated, and it'd probably hamper the controls as well.

I'm going with option A and C, because for me first person is a thousand times more scary than 3rd person has ever been. When it's first person you become the character, and see what they see. Lisa showing up in the corridor right in front of you, staring right back at you? You can't get that in 3rd person. You can't 'catch things in the corner of your eye' in the same way. For me, in SH4, the scariest parts were in the room.

I totally agree. First person view is much more immersive, and way more scary. We didn't even get the full view, as we weren't able to see any limbs in the teaser. I guess at this point, I'm just really hoping for the option to play either or. That way everyone wins.

[Little Wise Owl]

I'm sorry but I don't see it as too old or "overdone"... When was the last time you saw a survival horror that was in 3rd person w/ fixed camera angles? It's been a loooong time.. There are TONS of first person horror games (in fact I think there might be too many) so if anything, I think that's overdone.

Have you ever played Alan wake? There's also the The Evil Within that's coming out. There's tons of 3rd person horror games that have been released, or are on the way. It hasn't been a "looooong" time as you suggest. Also, I don't want the entire game to have fixed camera angles, why limit what we can see? Sure, a couple of really nice angles is OK, but an entire game? That's so dated, and it'd probably hamper the controls as well.

Alan Wake and The Evil Within (an unreleased game which COULD end up sucking) isn't really "tons of 3rd person horror". :/ The only other I can think of off hand is Siren Blood Curse which COULD have been amazing but they stuck to the extremely crappy controls of the first game. Any new Fatal Frame has been left unreleased in NA... Amy on PSN was awful.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree though. I don't want SHs in first person but I wouldn't mind a mix.

[Skele]

Alan Wake and The Evil Within (an unreleased game which COULD end up sucking) isn't really "tons of 3rd person horror". :/ The only other I can think of off hand is Siren Blood Curse which COULD have been amazing but they stuck to the extremely crappy controls of the first game. Any new Fatal Frame has been left unreleased in NA... Amy on PSN was awful.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree though. I don't want SHs in first person but I wouldn't mind a mix.

I just named the two to refute your point about it being a long time since we've had a survival horror in 3rd person. I didn't bother to mention games like Walking Dead, Amy, State of Decay, the many RE games, Deadly premonition, etc. because I figured these were obvious examples. Doesn't matter if the games sucked or not, they're still 3rd person.

You're right, we'll agree to disagree.

[Kenji]

The only other I can think of off hand is Siren Blood Curse which COULD have been amazing but they stuck to the extremely crappy controls of the first game.

Heh, I wish it had kept the old PS2 controls...! I think I've said a few times, here, that I was fine with the controls of the original and its sequel, but I found New Translation's to be far too loose and flighty to be of any real use to me.

And, in the perspective of the absolute dearth of scary or disturbing horror games in this last generation (I think Demon's Souls was the most effective, for me), I'll appreciate Silent Hills simply being effective, regardless of its perspective.

[leftshoe18]

I wouldn't completely write off the game if it were first-person but I'd be more than a little bummed out. If I want to play a first-person horror game, there's already plenty of those available.

[Catch23]

I just named the two to refute your point about it being a long time since we've had a survival horror in 3rd person. I didn't bother to mention games like Walking Dead, Amy, State of Decay, the many RE games, Deadly premonition, etc. because I figured these were obvious examples. Doesn't matter if the games sucked or not, they're still 3rd person.

You're right, we'll agree to disagree.

The only games on that list even approaching horror are Amy and Deadly Premonition. The rest are zombie themed action/survival games. And yes, what constitutes a horror game is subjective, but I really, really, think those titles are stretching it.

Even if we do count them as third person horror experiences, which I will because we obviously see them in a different light, they still pale in comparison to the plethora of first person horror titles flooding the market right now. Amnesia series, Outlast series, Slenderman and its clones, and the limitless supply of first person horror indie titles being released on places like Steam and Moddb using the Unity and Source engines. I believe it's only right to count those titles as some of them are of excellent quality. So I'd agree with Owl that first person is more common right now.

However, if we're purely talking consoles, it may be a bit more equal. Although it's worth noting that the only horror titles available on current gen platforms are first person horror games--Outlast and PT.

[DistantJ]

I also wanted to mention that one of the most terrifying parts in this demo (and a very Silent Hill moment) was when the radio said:

"Look behind you.

I SAID... LOOK BEHIND YOU."

Naturally, there was nothing behind me when I turned around, but being in first person, I couldn't know that until I did, and those few moments, thinking about whether or not to turn around, and the agonising few seconds it took to turn around... Such a feeling of terror... Impossible in third person.

[Skele]

The only games on that list even approaching horror are Amy and Deadly Premonition. The rest are zombie themed action/survival games. And yes, what constitutes a horror game is subjective, but I really, really, think those titles are stretching it.

Well true, but then Silent Hill was always it's own thing anyway. Sure it was in the "survival horror" genre, but it really stood apart from all the other 3rd person survival horror games due to it's storytelling, themes, and visuals. It's why this whole first person argument makes no sense to me. Who cares if there's a lot of first person survival horror games out right now, they're still not Silent Hill. I don't see how going first person suddenly makes it impossible for Silent Hill to differentiate from Slender, Outlast, or Amnesia.

[Leo Ho Tep]

The only games on that list even approaching horror are Amy and Deadly Premonition. The rest are zombie themed action/survival games. And yes, what constitutes a horror game is subjective, but I really, really, think those titles are stretching it.

Well true, but then Silent Hill was always it's own thing anyway. Sure it was in the "survival horror" genre, but it really stood apart from all the other 3rd person survival horror games due to it's storytelling, themes, and visuals. It's why this whole first person argument makes no sense to me. Who cares if there's a lot of first person survival horror games out right now, they're still not Silent Hill. I don't see how going first person suddenly makes it impossible for Silent Hill to differentiate from Slender, Outlast, or Amnesia.

True. I just bought outlast because I loved PT so much, but except for the first person view, it's nothing like it. And while it is fun, it let me down. I kept reading how terrifying it was, but it's really nothing compared to P.T imo.

[Skele]

True. I just bought outlast because I loved PT so much, but except for the first person view, it's nothing like it. And while it is fun, it let me down. I kept reading how terrifying it was, but it's really nothing compared to P.T imo.

Aw man, you weren't scared? I still haven't finished it, but I get creeped out a lot in that game. It's mainly because of how dark it is, and you're unable to fight.

[ashatteredmemory]

Technical side:
Third person has a lot of camera angle issues in close quarters when there's no fixed camera. Fixed camera gives some odd control when it changes to another angle.
This is why first person gets favorited for certain horror games that's set in close quarters like Outlast, Amnesia, ...

Personal side:
The "look behind you" works a lot better in first person than in third person, mainly because there could be something effectively behind you; and you need to see it for yourself, not shift your angle without making the character turn.
Third person person however can really benefit from the fixed angles, creating a lot of 'unknown space' where anything could be.
In adition to that, I really prefer combat in third person than first person. This is why i disliked Skyrim, but loved Kingdoms of Amalur (apart from art design).

First person also works a lot better for jump scares, which probably also makes developers go for first person. Third person doesn't really cut it for jump scares.
However, I do hope if it's going to be set in first person, they won't rely on jump scares.

I hope a mixture of first and third person will be used. First for the close quarters, third for the more open environments.

[Skele]

In adition to that, I really prefer combat in third person than first person. This is why i disliked Skyrim, but loved Kingdoms of Amalur (apart from art design).

You're aware that there's a 3rd person view available in Skyrim, right??? That's how I played the game, although I do need to start all over and beat it now that I have my PC connected to my TV again. will be a nice way to waste 100+ hours of my life.

[ashatteredmemory]

You're aware that there's a 3rd person view available in Skyrim, right??? That's how I played the game, although I do need to start all over and beat it now that I have my PC connected to my TV again. will be a nice way to waste 100+ hours of my life.

I was not the pacing and story didn't interest me enough to go check everything out.

[clips]

I'd prefer all 3rd person. When you can see your character, it's easier to connect with them, and it seems like a waste to not use 3rd person if you're using a big name actor. And I'm hoping that this game uses a lot of cinematic camera angles and doesn't just rely on the boring over the shoulder viewpoint the whole time. That viewpoint might make sense for an action game where you need to do lots of shooting, like Resident Evil, but it's terrible for a Silent Hill.

Another thing I don't like about first person is the way movement feels, as it feels floaty, but I'll say this: I did like the way movement felt in Silent Hill 4. I think that has to do with how you moved a bit more sluggishly than a lot of FPS's. If there have to be first person scenes in Silent Hill, and that seems likely, then I hope they take a cue from that and make the movement slower than usual.

And in an interview, Kojima said that he may make the game a combination of 1st and 3rd person. Which I'd be fine with, just so long as first person view doesn't dominate the game too much.

Co-sign... ....leave this series in the traditional 3rd person perspective...there's a ton of FP horror games out there and i was honestly getting tired of seeing every other game being created in terms of horror, in first person view. I just can't get into seeing two hands on the screen, or none at all unless it's a cutscene or youhave to pick something up.

I too like to see the character interact within the environment and to see his reactions and his animations in terms of walking,combat etc...just can't get into the game or chracter from a first person perspective.

As great as P.T. was, i would still prefer the 3rd person perspective and Downpour proved you can have a solid atmospheric experience from a 3rd person perspective. I used Downpour because it was the only game that used that over the shoulder view properly....even when opening doors in that game the camera would zoom in on the door right before you entered a room, so you never really knew what you was in for when enetring a room.

That view could have worked for P.T. as well and have had the same impact.

[19pack]

How would people feel about this - it's always set to 3rd person when you're out in the streets, then always switches to 1st person when you go inside buildings?

I'd be happy whichever way they choose to do it, so long as they give us the choice during first play-through to customise. Perhaps with the option in the menu to flip the indoor/outdoor 1st/3rd defaults or de-activate the system whenever and keep it exclusively one one or the other wherever you go in the game world.