Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Everything we know - and don't know, I guess - about all those Silent Hill rumours.

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jdnation
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Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by jdnation »

To be frank, Konami corporate probably never really cared for the canon of the original Team Silent, and demanded things that the developers themselves were likely never keen on and recommended against such as Tom Heulett admitted, such as Pyramid Head's inclusion and other things.

But it seems that they are more open to the idea of allowing new projects to not be so closely tied to the old Silent Hill canon or creatures.

Kojima's Silent Hills seemed to be a new canon reboot, but that project went away due to other internal squabbles at Konami over the direction of the company.

But there are also successes like Shattered Memories that are better received precisely for being their own thing and not ruining or contradicting the original titles.

It is possible that the Short Stories project might only be feasible if the new devs are comfortable working with the general concept of Silent Hill and doing their own thing which allows them more creative freedom that will at least allow them to redesign new areas of the town without being beholden to the maps or unnecessarily expanding the town to have new districts that become unfeasible. Or create new lore that can take place elsewhere.

This is not to say the old canon is completely discarded as maybe someone else might choose to stick within it.

Perhaps if Toyama's game does exist then he and the original crew would create a canonical Silent Hill 5 proper and maybe even bring that canon to a "conclusion."

But Kojima could also do his own thing. And so too could other small developers.

Rumors surrounding Bloober's SH2 do seem a bit off if they were just remaking the game indicating that either they are daring to do things they know will risk getting the fans mad at them for something, or perhaps there is a different angle...

What if Bloober is not remaking SH2 in a traditional sense?

What if it is more like Silent Hill 2: Shattered Memories?

Maybe Bloober is doing the same thing as Climax and using the base premise to do something new entirely?

Whether Bloober is clever enough to pull something like that off, I'll leave in the air. But it would make more sense in light of some of the rumors that indicate some larger reworking of puzzles and new endings along with their statement to IGN hinting that their next project, even if it is with someone else's IP, will be it's own original Bloober thing and they don't feel imprisoned by the IP.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by Alexius Corvinus »

They might be more hands-off, especially if Sony is involved in a significant way.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by DinoNerd89 »

I have hoped for a long time that Konami would of sold their IPs to Sony, especially Silent Hill. May be bit of an unpopular opinion in todays gaming climate, but if it meant we were gonna get new games, then it was something people would of had to accept.



However, if Konami currently lets Silent Hill be developed and keeps a hands off approach going forward, then i guess thats the next best thing. 🤷
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by alone in the town »

But it seems that they are more open to the idea of allowing new projects to not be so closely tied to the old Silent Hill canon or creatures.
I hope so, I personally think the 'canon' ended up ruining things more than helping things, both in terms of straightjacketing what the writers were allowed to do in later entries, and in terms of how many long, heated and sometimes unproductive arguments result from it. And, when you step back and really take the whole 'canon' in, it's not even that strong or evident within the games. It doesn't tie the series together with a powerful tree-trunk central core narrative device, there really is no such thing in this series. The lackluster middle era of Silent Hill games, 3 through Homecoming, were all consciously trying to shoehorn in elements, references and in-jokes to previous games, and were, with the exception of Homecoming, directly inspired by story elements from the first two games.

I would love for every future game to follow some core concepts, but to generally not bother with established canon and maybe, establish some new rules. Horror fails if you know what to expect ahead of time.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by leftshoe18 »

I think Silent Hill could benefit from taking a Twilight Zone approach and have each game set in a universe that isn't necessarily connected to any of the other games.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by Jonipoon »

alone in the town wrote: 04 Jun 2023The lackluster middle era of Silent Hill games, 3 through Homecoming, were all consciously trying to shoehorn in elements, references and in-jokes to previous games, and were, with the exception of Homecoming, directly inspired by story elements from the first two games.
That's rather oversimplifying things. Once a series grows and becomes larger, sticking to some sort of canon will undoubtedly result in recurring elements and references. Silent Hill 2 also referenced the first game in many ways, most notably in its UFO ending. And why stop at Homecoming? Shattered Memories is a pure reimagination of the first game, and Downpour even went as far as to reference later games such as The Room. It's certainly not just a "3 to Homecoming" thing.

I do agree about the canon in the Silent Hill universe always having been somewhat "loose", but with the first four games you at least felt that it glued together in some weird, messy way. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. It didn't feel like fan service, either.

Nevertheless, the series doesn't have that much of an overarching story between games anyways, so I don't see what's to complain about other than "Silent Hill 2 is more stand-alone than the rest, the rest should've been more like Silent Hill 2".
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by jdnation »

Being loose and vague with canonical lore is a good thing for a franchise. It leaves room to grow and do new things. The sense of mystery also helps.

However, retcons and contradictions are not good. So it helps to avoid prequels in that regard or reusing characters. Not that you can't, but you need to be careful.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by alone in the town »

Jonipoon wrote: 06 Jun 2023That's rather oversimplifying things. Once a series grows and becomes larger, sticking to some sort of canon will undoubtedly result in recurring elements and references. Silent Hill 2 also referenced the first game in many ways, most notably in its UFO ending. And why stop at Homecoming? Shattered Memories is a pure reimagination of the first game, and Downpour even went as far as to reference later games such as The Room. It's certainly not just a "3 to Homecoming" thing.
I stop at Homecoming because Shattered Memories was great and did not feel like a lazy, surface-level series of references and in-jokes pieced together by poor writing. It used the old material to do something new and unique and not a little brave. It was the only Silent Hill past 4 that I played and still thought about weeks and months later.

Silent Hill 3 is a game that I feel could have been a lot better if they didn't decide to expand upon the first game by rehashing almost every single plot point and not really doing anything new or interesting with them. TBH, after 20 years, I just don't personally feel like I ever wanted any more of what the first game gave us, in terms of characters and story. It's still a good Silent Hill game, with undeniably great visuals, music, and the best version of the standard-issue survival horror gameplay type you'll find in the series, but I really don't care for what it brought to the table in terms of plot, theme, or characters, or originality. It's almost entirely derivative. I like it, I can't love it.

Silent Hill 4 is a game that I just like less and less as time goes on. I feel like the fans overrate this game a lot because we still had Team Silent working on it, but the whole thing is a big mess. The gameplay comprehensively sucks, it's a huge step down on every level from the entirely unoriginal and standard-issue survival horror gameplay of the first three. The story is intriguing, but also a mess, the way it is told to you is unsatisfying, and Walter Sullivan is boring and I don't care at all about him or why he's killing people. Silent Hill 3 got pretty bloated with flavor text describing the beliefs and mythology of the Order, this game is bloated with boring characters who mostly don't matter, bland environments, crappy enemies, and it doesn't even look as good as the two previous games. All in all, I think this game pretty much sucks. It's a little more original than 3, but not in any way that works for me.

Origins struck me at the time, and continues to strike me, as an entirely unnecessary game, period. The gameplay is frustrating and completely un-fun, I don't care about Travis at all, and the last thing in the world I ever thought that Silent Hill 1 needed was an origin story. Again, I feel like the first game told me all I ever wanted to know about this! It added a lot to the 'canon', but what it added was just fluff. The reason I still love the first game is because it was so sparing with all the details! You hardly knew anything about the Order or its beliefs, even after the game was over, and that was fine!

Homecoming, again, let's try to recreate the magic of a good game by rehashing plots, themes, and iconic monsters, and hoping that you get a great game if you just toss them all in there together and stir. Yawn. It also added absolutely jack to the 'canon'. No future Silent Hill game will ever reference anything that happened here.

That was peak Silent Hill 'canon' period, to me. Every game is trying harder and harder to look and feel like a Silent Hill game, but the writers and directors weren't up to the task.

Shattered Memories decided to upend the canon and deconstruct Silent Hill 1, it surely does have its faults, but it told a really good story and it felt fresh. Downpour went back to formula a little, but it also avoided the giant, sucking pit of self-referential hell that turned Origins and Homecoming into unintentional parody. Even showing off the Room, that just felt like a little wink and a nod. They didn't attempt to shoehorn this reference into the entirety of the Silent Hill mythos and ruin it by clumsily trying to insist it meant something important. It was good, okay, had a few really cool moments, and I loved its interpretation of the Otherworld.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by Jonipoon »

I actually have no interest in arguing about which game is better or worse than the other, that's just counterproductive to me.

My point was simply that the series has never had an overarching story between the games, so there are not that many issues regarding canonicity of events.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

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>with the first four games you at least felt that it glued together in some weird, messy way.<
This, honestly, is what's kept me attracted to the Silent Hill series: A series-wide uniformity and connectedness that ties them all (or at least the majority of them) together. And that's what I want the series to continue doing. Obviously it doesn't have to be an ongoing sequel, like SILENT HILL to SILENT HILL 3, just keep the universe the same universe.

As much as I appreciate SILENT HILL: SHATTERED MEMORIES, it could have been another entry to the series without being a reimagining.

But I'm also an insufferable lore guy.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by Burning Man »

> As much as I appreciate SILENT HILL: SHATTERED MEMORIES, it could have been another entry to the series without being a reimagining.

I believe Climax's Silent Hill Cold Heart pitch was just like what you described. My impression is that there's an industry-wide practice that when introducing an existing series to new consoles, the game needs some relationship to the original in the series. Capcom did that with REmake. For the Silent Hill series, Play Novel Silent Hill for Gameboy Advanced; Silent Hill Origins for PSP; and, well, Silent Hill Shattered Memories for the Wii. Unlike REmake, which was successful enough to warrant sequels on Gamecube, the Silent Hill series never saw enough sales on those platforms.

Now, with the revival of the series, the Silent Hill 2 remake will likely be the "original" game moving forward for the franchise. I kind of expect that when the series is introduced to a new console, it will be some form of Silent Hill 2 - either a re-telling or some spin-off from one of the plot threads.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by The Adversary »

This is why I want SILENT HILL 2: REMAKE to be a strict remake that fits in the established Silent Hill universe, not a sort of spin-off—one that can be used in the canon we already have, not an alternate timeline.
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Re: Is Konami now more open to a non-canon/hands-off approach?

Post by Herr Shaun »

The Adversary wrote: 09 Jun 2023 >with the first four games you at least felt that it glued together in some weird, messy way.<
This, honestly, is what's kept me attracted to the Silent Hill series: A series-wide uniformity and connectedness that ties them all (or at least the majority of them) together. And that's what I want the series to continue doing. Obviously it doesn't have to be an ongoing sequel, like SILENT HILL to SILENT HILL 3, just keep the universe the same universe.

As much as I appreciate SILENT HILL: SHATTERED MEMORIES, it could have been another entry to the series without being a reimagining.

But I'm also an insufferable lore guy.
How did you feel about Homecoming's approach, wherein they tried to do something of their own without (in any way I could see) disturbing the original canon? I feel like any future installment would work just fine conceptually as long as they didn't try to retcon anything.
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