Would you prefer SH1 or SH3 next?

[leftshoe18]

Honestly, I just don't like that subplot. Not only does it add very little to the story, but it feels like something put in by a team that didn't know the direction they wanted the franchise to take. It feels tacked on and extraneous, and it just doesn't fit the rest of what Silent Hill became in my opinion.

[The Adversary]

That's basically it. I don't dislike the PTV subplot. It could definitely be expanded upon. It's just — I don't think even the developers liked it, because once Toyama left, PTV disappeared entirely. ORIGINS references it and that's it. SILENT HILL 3 could have included it in addition to the "They look like monsters to you?" aspect — that the drug causes hallucinations would be an easy way to explain this, not just that they were transfigured by Claudia's power.

PTV has so much potential and I feel it was squandered, so, at this point, it seems superfluous and could be dropped.

[Chris Sunderland]

Red Dead 2 is too big for its own good. What's the point of a gigantic map if there's nothing to do in it?

It's definitely very ill suited in scope for the horror genre.

That's why I wasn't talking about the open world, I didn't mention it(yet). However if Silent Hill and Evil Within 2 has shown me anything an open world horror game could work. Definitely not on a scale of RDR2 obviously, but I could see a talented developer making a good horror game that's more open.

Also RDR2 has an amazing open world? It probably has the most interactive world in a game? It's one of the few open world games where I can just wander and feel like stuff is happening. Funny how different people see things.

Adversary I too would like the PTV plot to come up again. Always was weird how it almost didn't exist in the sequels.

[Burning Man]

Thank you both for clarifying, leftshoe18 and The Adversary. I needed that context.

I believe PTV was influenced by BZ that was referenced in Jacob's Ladder. Whereas BZ had some real-life ramifications, PTV does not. That might be why PTV feels a bit tacked on.

Honest question: how do you feel about Cybil? Cybil seems kind of similar in that regard. She's never brought up again in Silent Hill 3 and Origins. She's briefly mentioned in Homecoming. I also don't think she makes much impact in the main story.

Cybil's purpose was:
- To give Harry a handgun, which others have pointed out its absurdity.
- For the boss fight at the carousel.
- (if she survives) to give Harry an outlet to inform players that Cheryl is not his biological daughter. This is already implied in the Intro so kind of redundant.
- (if she survives) to give players an opportunity to receive any of the + endings.

[jdnation]

Cybil is useful as a support character for Harry to relate himself to and the fact that he is not crazy. They both help to confirm each others sanity. The town is strange and the monsters do exist.

That Cybil gives Harry a gun is definitely not something in the police handbook, but the situation they are in is pretty crazy, she can't get out of town, there are monsters, and I preferred to think of Cybil's character as a more pragmatic sort who isn't a by-the-book cop and who might even be willing to break a rule or take a risk for greater gain. I can't recall the exact character archetype, but it is a staple grey-moral, film noir type.

I don't have an issue with the drug plot. The cult isn't really mainstream and needed a source of funding, or a drug ring used the cult as cover, or there was mutual benefit. And cults using drugs to induce religious experiences are a thing. There does seem to be some elaboration that the drug's materials offers some protection/immunity from the creatures, the parasitic things that have taken over the doctors and nurses, given Lisa was immune to it for awhile, and that it can 'exorcise' both Cybil and Alessa. If the cult was messing with the unknown, the drug was protection. Not to mention that I think there are later allusions to native people using it historically for ceremonies from White Claudia.

I think it would've made sense too if the health drinks and ampoules Harry used were made of similar ingredients, but that doesn't seem so - likely a consideration to avoid a harsher CERO rating against repeated depictions of illicit drug consumption by the player, so they left them as standard health items.

The subplot is deliberately vague, so the player can fill in the blanks with all kinds of possibilities, but enough details are given to form some kind of logic, and so Cybil and Kaufmann help to include that aspect narratively. Cybil is never mentioned again as her fate is left unknown depending on the two possible canon endings of SH1.

[Burning Man]

>I think it would've made sense too if the health drinks and ampoules Harry used were made of similar ingredients, but that doesn't seem so - likely a consideration to avoid a harsher CERO rating against repeated depictions of illicit drug consumption by the player, so they left them as standard health items.

CERO was founded in 2002, so Silent Hill 1 appears to predate CERO.

But hold on. You may be on to something. In Silent Hill Origins, the description for the Ampoule is as follows:

"A narcotic ampoule. The powerful narcotic in these ampoules can ease the pain of any injury. They pack a kick, too."

[Chris Sunderland]

It's kinda funny to think of white Claudia as Silent Hills answer to Racoons City's herbs. This Mcguffin cure all with no downsides is flipped into a super addictive, facility destroying LSDherion.
IDK PTV is interesting and I think drug addiction should be explored in a mature way.

[The Adversary]

>IDK PTV is interesting and I think drug addiction should be explored in a mature way.<
Exactly. With a 16-year-old girl being used and manipulated by it for sexual and professional gain.

[Chris Sunderland]

>IDK PTV is interesting and I think drug addiction should be explored in a mature way.<
Exactly. With a 16-year-old girl being used and manipulated by it for sexual and professional gain.

Lisa is a great example. However I'd like to see a more in depth look at what drug addiction does to a person and those around them, as in a main character.

[Burning Man]

I've always wondered what a Requiem for a Dream-inspired Silent Hill would look like. However, if the game were to explore drug addiction, I think it should be the main theme. I don't think introducing a side character who happens to be a drug addict will do the subject justice.

[jdnation]

Well, from another perspective, opium was consumed by many artists back in the day who then turned out many classic pieces of phantasmagoric and horror nightmare art.

But I don't know if the topic is directly a fit for the franchise story-wise where the MC is a user. The idea being that the world around you is a nightmare while you're sober. Maybe if it was in their past, but it feels like a so-so concept, whereas trauma, phobias, self deceit and one's conscience are richer environments, so if anything resulting drug usage would be an escape from these and supplemental to them.

There's been some trend of discussions exploring technophobia and cosmophobia and astrophobia. I think something interesting can be done with these and a character with existential dread, and that might pair well with drug use creating reality and order breaking experiences.

I had an opportunity to check out the recent eclipse, and it felt very errie in a way I wasn't expecting.

[Chris Sunderland]

I've always wondered what a Requiem for a Dream-inspired Silent Hill would look like. However, if the game were to explore drug addiction, I think it should be the main theme. I don't think introducing a side character who happens to be a drug addict will do the subject justice.

Yes we already had Lisa which touched on her addiction and we've had characters drink or smoke but it's never been a full on exploration of these things. A player charecter exploring the absolute hell that withdrawal/relapse can be and the distorted image of one's self that drug addiction can create, would be something never done before to my knowledge in a game. It's also a subject prone to being misunderstood and dealt with in a immature manner.

[Utherworld]

I'd much rather a proper SH1 remake happen 1st.

I mean, how can you remake 3 without remaking 1?

I'd like to see Alessa and the drug plot get intertwined more than the original.

[Jonipoon]

In last year's interview with Motoi Okamoto where he explains why they chose to remake SILENT HILL 2 first instead of the first game, I noticed something I didn't pay that much attention to before, which could potentially impact future remakes in the series:

“When we thought about what Silent Hill's identity is, we came to the conclusion that it's the true psychological horror of the series. And when you ask people what true psychological horror is, just about everyone will tell you Silent Hill 2.

“We decided that if the brand's identity is true psychological horror, we needed to start by remaking Silent Hill 2. There were of course some people inside the company who thought it would be better to start with 1, but I wanted to start this project with something that symbolizes this identity.”

What this quote means is that this remake isn't a one-off thing, it's the start of a new era of Silent Hill games. A reboot of the whole franchise. While this has been known for quite a while now, I don't think we've realized what this could mean for future remakes. For example, let's say, the original SILENT HILL 1?

If Konami has decided that the brand's identity is synonymous with SILENT HILL 2 and everything it stands for, this could mean that a remake of SILENT HILL 1 will be altered to tell a more personal story surrounding Harry Mason. The Cult stuff could be greatly reduced, instead focusing solely on Harry searching for his daughter while going on vacation in Silent Hill. This could mean:

- Less scenes with Dahlia
- More scenes with Cheryl and Alessa
- Harry blaming himself for Cheryl gone missing, questioning his fatherhood, showing doubts, etc
- Jodie Mason playing a bigger role, potentially hiding Cheryl's true identity/background to Harry before she died

I really don't like this idea, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I don't want the Cult stuff to be reduced and the first game's story altered to some personal psychological story about Harry Mason, but I had to throw it out there just in case. Harry to me is a full-fledged everyday hero, and his 100% commitment to finding his daughter is one of the best aspects of Silent Hill.

[Burning Man]

If Konami has decided that the brand's identity is synonymous with SILENT HILL 2 and everything it stands for, this could mean that a remake of SILENT HILL 1 will be altered to tell a more personal story surrounding Harry Mason.

Dengeki Online published an interview article last month where Ito elaborated how he decided to join the team in making SH2R. Originally, he was going to decline because he felt no reason to reboot the original game. But then he considered how SH2R could possibly go in an entirely different direction from the original if he was not involved. So, he decided to join with the thought that he would contribute as a big Silent Hill 2 fan on storytelling and such.

While it's important for a producer to have a vision where he wants to take the series, Okamoto seems to be someone who will discuss what's best for the project with other staff. If folks like Ito, who wish to preserve the direction of the original games, are involved in the project, we won't see drastic changes in how the story is told, hopefully.

[Jonipoon]

>If folks like Ito, who wish to preserve the direction of the original games, are involved in the project, we won't see drastic changes in how the story is told, hopefully.

Ironically, Bloober Team were the ones who sometimes had to step in during development and tell people like Ito that ”we shouldn’t change this”.

[Utherworld]

IMO there is no way to release SH3 without releasing SH1 1st.

Especially if the remakes are for newer audiences. Learn from Capcom and their asset reuse, and release the games I the proper order.

(Although I don't know if Capcom is doing Code Veronica before RE5 remakes lol)

[Burning Man]

>If folks like Ito, who wish to preserve the direction of the original games, are involved in the project, we won't see drastic changes in how the story is told, hopefully.

Ironically, Bloober Team were the ones who sometimes had to step in during development and tell people like Ito that ”we shouldn’t change this”.

Here's some elaboration from the interview. It sounds like Ito may have wanted to change the creature design.

Q. I read an interview where the people involved in the original version wanted to change everything, but Bloober Team was against it. What kind of opinions were exchanged specifically?

Okamoto: At the very start, there were discussions about completely changing the creature design. We were also looking for a new direction for the sound. It was a remake, but there were some bold opinions to make it a completely new game.

Maciej: While there were such proposals, there were also proposals to make as few changes as possible from the original. Ultimately, we wanted to make a work that would be relevant in modern times, so we took into account some of the intentions and settled on the current form.

Q. Mr. Yamaoka and Mr. Ito, how did you feel about being involved in the remake?

Yamaoka: I called it self-counseling, but I started by thinking about my life about 25 years ago, what I was thinking, and how I lived. As a result, I couldn't remember who I was at that time. I couldn't remember what I was thinking when I made the original version, and it was painful to have to debate with myself every day. It would have been easy to remake the music as it was, but I wanted modern players to accept the game, so I tried to create the music this time. At that time, I actually had no money and was poor. If you listen to the music from that time, there is no bass guitar sound in the music. I didn't have money and couldn't buy a bass. So I made the bass sound by tuning the guitar. I think I was thinking about making it a little better even in a tight situation, but I forgot all about that (laughs). I was thinking about such things while I was making it.

Ito: To be honest, when I received the request from Mr. Okamoto around 2019, I thought there was no need to change the original version of Silent Hill 2, so I was going to turn it down. However, I thought it would be better to participate and keep the direction from wavering, rather than not participating and going in a completely different direction. The storytelling of Silent Hill 2 is the core part of the game. It is an element that should be inherited from the original, so I decided to participate and make an effort to do that. Earlier, there was a discussion about whether to change it or not, but when I accepted the request, I thought that it would be more meaningful to make a remake if the core outer parts were changed drastically, so I expressed that opinion. Although it ended up like this, personally, my goal was to deliver the charm and impact of the original in a more polished form than it was at the time for people who have never played Silent Hill 2.

Ref: https://www.famitsu.com/article/202408/14515

[jdnation]

In last year's interview with Motoi Okamoto where he explains why they chose to remake SILENT HILL 2 first instead of the first game, I noticed something I didn't pay that much attention to before, which could potentially impact future remakes in the series:

“When we thought about what Silent Hill's identity is, we came to the conclusion that it's the true psychological horror of the series. And when you ask people what true psychological horror is, just about everyone will tell you Silent Hill 2.

“We decided that if the brand's identity is true psychological horror, we needed to start by remaking Silent Hill 2. There were of course some people inside the company who thought it would be better to start with 1, but I wanted to start this project with something that symbolizes this identity.”

What this quote means is that this remake isn't a one-off thing, it's the start of a new era of Silent Hill games. A reboot of the whole franchise. While this has been known for quite a while now, I don't think we've realized what this could mean for future remakes. For example, let's say, the original SILENT HILL 1?

If Konami has decided that the brand's identity is synonymous with SILENT HILL 2 and everything it stands for, this could mean that a remake of SILENT HILL 1 will be altered to tell a more personal story surrounding Harry Mason. The Cult stuff could be greatly reduced, instead focusing solely on Harry searching for his daughter while going on vacation in Silent Hill. This could mean:

- Less scenes with Dahlia
- More scenes with Cheryl and Alessa
- Harry blaming himself for Cheryl gone missing, questioning his fatherhood, showing doubts, etc
- Jodie Mason playing a bigger role, potentially hiding Cheryl's true identity/background to Harry before she died

I really don't like this idea, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I don't want the Cult stuff to be reduced and the first game's story altered to some personal psychological story about Harry Mason, but I had to throw it out there just in case. Harry to me is a full-fledged everyday hero, and his 100% commitment to finding his daughter is one of the best aspects of Silent Hill.

They are definitely thinking of remaking all the PS2 games.

I doubt they'll reduce any aspects of SH1. If anything they'll add more.

I could see them fleshing out Harry's character and giving him his own psychological horror subplot... But I also believe they'll be too risk-averse to changes, and all this alongside SH1's older design is why I think they might look into combining 1 and 3 together, trimming the fat of SH1 such that you still hit all the same locations and moments, but with less running around back and forth, keeping only the most memorable puzzles. However you will only get the endings where you escape with Cheryl; Good and Good+.

If it were up to me, I'd keep all the endings, but lock the SH3 route behind the necessary endings that the player would have to achieve.

Also, if you save Cybil, I'd have bonus references to her included in some fashion, like maybe Douglas has some file of hers, or Claudia and Vincent reference her, or there's something relating to her in Harry's apartment as an emergency contact or something. Maybe a new ending where assuming you find all the things associated with her, she makes a cameo appearance at the end to pick up Heather and Douglas.

Anyway, all that said, I wouldn't take Okamoto's words too seriously. They should simply be treated as PR.

Konami is remaking SH2 first, for the same reason they are remaking MGS3 first (Granted that it just so happens to be first chronologically), and only bothered remaking Zone of the Enders 2 earlier... Because those are the most beloved entries by critical and fan concensus. And there also just so happens to be a movie coming.

Which is not to say he's lying. But only that the psychological trauma justification is an after-the-fact determination that was initially made based on purely commercial factors. But that doesn't sound good to say in an interview, so here's the more artsy reason.

[Droo]

Any remake of SH1 should swap perspectives between Harry and Cybil up until the point she's possessed. It would be a good way to expand the game and also expand on what she was up to.